Herx or Flare- how does one tell?

[karyninMiami]

How long does a Herx reaction last- can anyone give me some insight? It’s been abut 2 weeks now that I’ve been seeing an increase in swelling in my hands and wrists, pain and stiffness in my shoulders and elbows- especially at night. The swelling which was horrendous when this all began in late May, had almost disappeared (or only lasted a short time after waking up). Now it’s lasting all day into the night and my shoulders and elbows are achy and sore at night as well. My knee pain, (which is how this all started at the beginning) which only happens when I stand or sit down, is as ferocious as ever. Just had my last of 3 shots of euflexxa, in the hope that my knees are due to osteoarthritis not the seronegative RA the rheummy believes it is. As it’s been 2 weeks since my third shot and I’ve noticed no change, I’m beginning to think she may be correct, sadly.

I’ve been taking minocyclene (twice a day) since mid June. Because of the concern of my Rheummy that my knee pain might be due to the RA, I agreed to begin taking planqunil which I started 2 weeks ago (her first choice was methatroxate but I refused). I’m also taking Celebrex every day- so I suppose it could be that the Celebrex is no longer working (just another thing to ponder)….

The only other change besides the addition of the Plaquenil, is that I’ve not been as strict about my gluten free, non-nightshade diet as I had been in July and earlier in August. I’ve also had a bit more wine (but not a huge amount). I also added Cat’s Claw tinctures (natural anti-inflammatory)

Could this be a long lasting Herxheimer reaction? If so, can anyone advise how long these last?

I’m doing my best to keep swimming (4-5X a week, 30-40 minutes per swim) and taking a restorative yoga class twice a week. But this amount of pain, frankly is pretty exhausting. I’m taking Tramadol for the pain when I don’t need to drive anywhere (it makes me sleepy) and Tylonol arthritis at other times- but frankly, neither is helping all that much for the level of pain I am experiencing these days. Any ideas on anything else I can take for the pain that might be more effective?

Thanks as always to you all for your advice and for all that you guys do!

[Maz]

@karyninMiami wrote:

How long does a Herx reaction last- can anyone give me some insight? It’s been abut 2 weeks now that I’ve been seeing an increase in swelling in my hands and wrists, pain and stiffness in my shoulders and elbows- especially at night.

I’ve been taking minocyclene (twice a day) since mid June. Because of the concern of my Rheummy that my knee pain might be due to the RA, I agreed to begin taking planqunil which I started 2 weeks ago (her first choice was methatroxate but I refused). I’m also taking Celebrex every day– so I suppose it could be that the Celebrex is no longer working (just another thing to ponder)….

I’ve also had a bit more wine (but not a huge amount). I also added Cat’s Claw tinctures (natural anti-inflammatory)

Could this be a long lasting Herxheimer reaction? If so, can anyone advise how long these last?

Hi Karyn,

Really sorry to hear you’re in so much pain. As you just started experiencing increased pain at the same time as introducing plaquenil, it’s possible that you’re also experiencing some herxing. Plaquenil has some anti-protozoal props and is also used in Lyme treatments as a cyst-buster. So, if you have any bugs (e.g. babesiosis and/or Lyme) in your mix, then you could be experiencing a new round of die-off symptoms. Plaquenil can take several months to reach full effect. I noticed some nice anti-inflam props begin around the 2 to 3 week mark when I took it at the start of my issues.

You’ve also added Cat’s Claw and this has some anti-microbial and anti-fungal props, too, so it’s possible you’re getting a reaction from this.

http://www.naturalnews.com/032917_cats_claw_herb.html

It’s generally not a good idea to add too much at once to one’s protocol, because it can be really challenging to know what is helping and what may be causing too much die-off or even an adverse reaction.

Wine contains a lot of sugars, which aren’t that great for the gut (candida) and can also overload the liver, especially in combination with other drugs, like celebrex, plaquenil and mino together. Red wine does contain resveratrol, which is supposed to be good for its anti-oxidative support, but there are supps one can use for this. Although your alcohol intake is moderate, you might want to cut back or cut it out completely for these reasons. The increased pain at night may also be related to liver dumping, which occurs in the middle of the night. Helping the liver to detox may help to relieve some of this. Are you trying anything in the way of detoxing?

http://hamsnetwork.org/carbs/

Nice to hear from you, Karyn…great you checked in and hopefully you’ll find lots of support here for these types of questions. We all know what you’e experiencing, unfortunately, but it helps to have others around who know what you’re feeling sometimes. Feel better soon!

PS. Karyn, just noted on your post to Rosey_UK (viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9487#p70411) that you’re also using Tramadol. There are interactions with this pain reliever (which is an opiod analgesic) with alcohol, so you may want to exercise real caution with this combination:

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2221-0,1034-14582

[PhilC]

Hi Karyn,
@karyninMiami wrote:

The only other change besides the addition of the Plaquenil, is that I’ve not been as strict about my gluten free, non-nightshade diet as I had been in July and earlier in August.

Don’t underestimate the importance of a good diet. A bad diet could easily undo much of the inflammation-fighting benefit you receive from the medications you are taking.

@karyninMiami wrote:

I also added Cat’s Claw tinctures (natural anti-inflammatory)

I would be careful with that herb (see below quotes).

In laboratory studies, cat’s claw stimulates part of the immune system, but it has not been proven to reduce inflammation or boost the immune system in humans.

---

Because cat’s claw may stimulate the immune system, it is unclear whether the herb is safe for people with conditions affecting the immune system.

Source: http://nccam.nih.gov/health/catclaw

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[enzed]

A few months ago, I tried Cats Claw for a few days but tipped it out because of the reaction I had to it. I wish I hadn’t taken it at all. I think it caused an adverse reaction to my immune system that reversed when I stopped taking it. I think it may be one of those things claims are made about without sufficient evidence to back up it’s safety.

[lynnie_sydney]

I agree with Phil – don’t under-estimate the impact of becoming a little lax with your diet. The biggest change I noticed (before I changed to a combo abx regime) – was in my knees purely from simple change of diet. Daily pain that I’d learned to tolerate and swelling was gone in under 6 weeks. Knees are not generally indicated in R.A. So I would suspect something else there, even the possibility of Lyme.

Dietary change for me was: No gluten (none – a little will just make you hungry and not have any beneficial effect), no dairy and no sulfites. Wine’s biggest problem is the sulphur dioxide. If you feel like you cannot give up the wine, my naturopath advised taking Activated B6 to counter (minimise) the effects of the sulphur dioxide. In my case, I believe giving up almost all sulfites (dried fruit is the absolute worst culprit – i.e. highest sulfite content – unless you buy organic varieties which are air or freeze dried). Sulfites are bad for everyone, but especially those with immune issues. That’s why I don’t now eat anything out of a packet (sauces etc) just fresh.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

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