Help – what dose to start ap with? Thanks Nancy!

[patty3722]

Hi everyone,
I was recently diagnosed with RA. I’m not on any medication. Just changed my diet so far and seeing holistic doctor.
My GP is willing to give me the minocin although he doesn’t think it will do any good.
He wants me to take it every day – I think 50 mg.
I thought the starting dose is 100mg M -W-F.??????
He said I can take it every other day if I want to.
Should I take it every day or M – W – F ???????
Thanks for your help.
Patty

[nspiker]

Hi Patty,

Welcome to the Roadback! Sounds like you have already researched, and decided to start AP, which is great.

As stated in the historical protocol, 100 mg. MWF is recommended. It’s always better to start slowly and ramp up, because of the herxheimer reaction. You could start out at 50 mg MWF,for the first week or two, and then ramp up to 100 mg., if you are tolerating the dose.

Also, be sure to take good quality probiotics, a few hours away from the Minocin, and drink lots of lemon water for detoxing.
nancy

[patty3722]

Hi Nancy,

Thanks for your reply – It all gets a little confusing.
Yes I have been researching RA for over 6 months and about two weeks ago came across “The Road
Back forum”. And Dr. McPheason Browns site. So happy I did. I also found the same info on Dr. Oz’s site.
I was starting to feel like there was no help for me except those nasty drugs out there.
I am seeing a houlistic doctor for nutrition and all that and now I feel so much better reading all the posts here
and how the therapy has helped so many people.
I’m taking a probiotic now – thanks for the info on that to. I did read to take it 3 to 4 hours after taking the antibiotic.
And no dairy products.
I think I will take it M_W_F for a couple of weeks then increase it to 100 mg. like you suggested.
Thanks again 😀
Patty

[lynnie_sydney]

I think I will take it M_W_F for a couple of weeks then increase it to 100 mg. like you suggested.

Patty – the herxheimer effect often doesnt begin until 2 -4 weeks after starting and sometimes later. You would probably be better to take a starting dose for a couple of months before considering an increase. This is a slow road to increased wellness.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[hopefulmama]

This topic has been on my mind… thanks for writing about it!

I took doxycycline monohydrate 100mg BID – first daily for several weeks, then M-W-F. After a while, I went to every other day. That lasted for about 7 months. When we uncovered the yersinia enterolitica, my AP doc recommended going to 100bid daily. After 2 weeks I started to get wicked headaches. He then diagnosed me with intracranial hypertension and asked me to discontinue the doxy.

It took negotiation to get restarted. After the vision specialist said no sign of inflammation in my eyes, the AP doc agreed to let me go back on it M-W-F. The pharmacist switched me to doxycycline hyclate due to a suspicion of a problem with the filler in that monohydrate formulation. I tried the d. hyclate at 100mg and had an awful response.

Just when I was about to give up on doxy, Phil on this board kindly suggested that I reduce the dose to 50mg and start with that. I am now taking 50mg (daily) and have been doing much better on that. (Thanks, Phil!!!)

My pharmacist freaked out about that though, and told me that it had to be at least 100mg a day to be effective and that I was going to create resistance and develop stronger bacteria that will not be susceptible to the antibiotic any more. I looked into this and found several studies out of the periodontal and dermatology fields suggesting that taking antisubmicrobial doxycycline for inflammation was fine and did not affect long term bacterial susceptibility.

Is there any real reason why taking 50mg would pose a problem long term?

Thanks…

[lynnie_sydney]

Andrea – you might like to have a look/re-look at this post of Maz which seems to confirm the Dr Brown et al position that there’s no evidence of long term bacterial resistance with the tetra drugs:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6051

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[patty3722]

Thanks for all your feedback!
So seeing how my doctor said it’s up to me – Maybe I should start on 50 mg M_W_F
for a while then up it. How about the diet???
No diary at all on this medication hu?
I have not been eating dairy.
Although this past weekend I had a very bad diet.
So how are you all feeling – Is the medication working for you?
Have your levels (RA, CCP, SED, etc) gone down?
How is your pain levels?
Patty

[A Friend]

@lynnie_sydney wrote:

I think I will take it M_W_F for a couple of weeks then increase it to 100 mg. like you suggested.

Patty – the herxheimer effect often doesnt begin until 2 -4 weeks after starting and sometimes later. You would probably be better to take a starting dose for a couple of months before considering an increase. This is a slow road to increased wellness.

EDIT: This is a link to Dr. Sinatra’s Liver Support program discussed below:
http://www.drsinatra.com/daily-detoxifier.html

Lynnie,

What do you think about Patty (and everyone else on AP, perhaps) to also discuss with their healthcare providers about taking a liver support product? The reason I’m now mentioning this (on my own hindsight) is because many — if not most — of us lack the necessary ability to neutralize and eliminate enough of the die-off and toxic wastes that happen (which I believe is important, both before and after we begin AP). I learned the hard way that this toxic waste can gradually build up before we learn about its happening and its role in causing increased pain, etc.

I’ve also learned the past 6 months that if/when our gut lining has lost some of its ability to digest and break down adequate amino acids from protein foods, we can suffer even more from a buildup of acidic wastes, because if the gut is not healthy, this can cause us to be lacking in B vitamins in general (and B-6/P5P in particular… said to be needed as a separate supplement to a complete B vitamin supplement. The reason this is needed, it said, is because this is needed to “split” the enzymes in the function of amino acids so they can perform their specific jobs — one big job is “metabolic detoxification.” What an education studying amino acids has been for me. Can’t believe our physicians don’t use this amino acids knowledge all the time.

In Patty’s case, she has a naturopathic physician who will probably guide her in these areas of liver support, but probably most of us did not or do not.

I just did a search for “supplement for liver support” thinking of Milk Thistle, a usually recognized help for the liver. The search found a very interesting new product that outstanding heart specialist/nutritionist Dr. Stephen Sinatra has introduced that mentions a two-step process known as Phase I and Phase II detoxification (haven’t read it all yet) and it does have a heading about Milk Thistle inside the article. This same search will probably find it again. If not, his web site is http://www.drsinatra.com — new Edited info: http://www.drsinatra.com/daily-detoxifier.html

Lynnie, thanks for any of your thoughts on this.

[lynnie_sydney]

AF – yes this is an interesting one! Not exactly in the AP lexicon but, nevertheless, seems to be important and has been so for me. Milk Thistle seems to have helped many here and many use it as a reghular part of their regimes to keep liver enzymes in normal range. Although, when I had my liver crisis two years ago, my doc advised against taking it while there was risk of my liver actually being quite damaged (my case was pretty extreme with my ALT enzymes reading over 22 times normal!!). I am a great believer in detoxification, though cannot take the lemon/olive oil drink as my body does not tolerate lemon (in my case it does not have an alkalizing effect and the residual acid brings on joint pain). However, many find it works for them and I am pasting the link to the original site that details it below. For my liver cleansing/healing, I drank the organic kale with umeboshi “vinegar” broth (not fermented and not really vinegar). This was an amazing liver cleanser for me at a timre when I taking a break from all abx and supps in order to rest my whole system. When my liver normalized, there was no scarring, which everyone was astonished by. I still use it from time to time.

http://www.keephopealive.org/lemondrk.html

http://www.bethnielsenchapman.com/index.php?page=recovery (scroll down to Gabrielle’s Wonder Soup)

So, yes I agree with you (from personal experience) that the liver is extremely important to keep as healthy as possible because pretty well everything passes through it and it really is the ‘seat of life’. And holistic practitioners would be expected to be across this and recognise its importance.

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[patty3722]

ok – This is all very interesting – I actually have an appt tomm with my houlistic doctor –
I will talk to her about my liver.
So the antibiotics or the toxins from the (microplasma’s) ( do I have this right)
will build up in my liver?
I already did a detox and am now on a supplement (Metagenics) for RA.
Also on a probiotic and will start the cod liver oil as that is an anti-infammatory among other things.
Does anyone take turmeric?

Thanks for all your input it has been really helpful – keep it coming. 😀

Patty

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