Flare? Healing Crisis? In Pain!

[kali]

I have not posted on this site – I just usually read and learn – but I am desperate about my condition right now and need some feedback. I have been on AP (doxycycline) since June. I recently had some very spastic bladder issues and tested negative for a UTI so the doctor treated me with 2 back to back doses of diflucan. At that time, I also decided to stop the abx for a few days and just try to get some good doses of probees in my body. I stayed off abx for about a week. I am now in misery. I started back and have taken 3 doses to this point. Also, suddenly the probiotics are bringing on terrible pain. I guess these are all herx reactions – but what gives? I am getting no relief at all and feel worse than ever. Up to now the AP has helped alot. Should I back off the probiotics for now? Is this just a terrible flare? And if so, why is it worse than ever? Any feedback would be most appreciated.
Thanks,
Kali

[Maz]

@kali wrote:

I have not posted on this site – I just usually read and learn – but I am desperate about my condition right now and need some feedback. I have been on AP (doxycycline) since June. I recently had some very spastic bladder issues and tested negative for a UTI so the doctor treated me with 2 back to back doses of diflucan. At that time, I also decided to stop the abx for a few days and just try to get some good doses of probees in my body. I stayed off abx for about a week. I am now in misery. I started back and have taken 3 doses to this point. Also, suddenly the probiotics are bringing on terrible pain. I guess these are all herx reactions – but what gives? I am getting no relief at all and feel worse than ever. Up to now the AP has helped alot. Should I back off the probiotics for now? Is this just a terrible flare? And if so, why is it worse than ever? Any feedback would be most appreciated.

Hi Kali,

Nice to meet you, but sorry you are in so much pain. Can you share your diagnosis? Disease duration? Degree of severity? Any other drugs you’ve been on to date? Still taking? What is the dose you’ve been using of your doxy? Pulsing? Daily? You can add a signature line that will show up every time you post with all this info, so it should help to generate more responses from others. Just click on the User Control Panel at the top of this page, then hit the Profile tab and click on “Edit Signature.” You can change/update this info at any time. 😉

It’s very possible for other acute infections to set off flares and any changes in dose can also create more die-off, such as stopping the antibiotic and re-starting it or increasing the dose. Doxy and diflucan can be taken together with no problem. Did the doc reckon your bladder issues were due to candida?

Have you tried rotating different brands of probiotics to see which brand you can tolerate better? Some folk will use a couple different brands to ensure they get a wider spectrum of good bugs. Some folk have actually found some probiotics or their fillers to worsen their symptoms and have to switch brands.

If not due to the acute infection, there is also the possibility of a fall flare. Seasonal flares are pretty common in both fall and spring for rheumatics and RAers often get these (mentioned in Henry Scammell book if you have a copy). AP doesn’t stop flares from occurring as abx don’t suppress immune function. However, over time, flares should be getting fewer, shorter in duration and less intense as the pathogen load is slowly lowered.

If candida is a larger problem (acute infections like this can signal a fungal overgrowth), some AP docs will pulse in a systemic, like Diflucan, to be taken alongside the tetracycline to keep things at bay and so AP doesn’t need to be stopped, but diet and cutting out all sugars is also very important for maintenance. Systemic candidiosis symptoms can mimic RA symptoms, so sometimes it’s hard to distinguish between what might be an RA flare and candida overgrowth symptoms (joint pain and fatigue, for instance).

Any reason in particular that you went on doxycycline rather than minocycline?

Are you using any detoxification measures to help rid the body of toxins? This can really help to lower pain levels. Candida die-off can really pack a big punch in some folk, so it’s possible the acute infection and use of Diflucan instigated this flare and your body needs a little help disposing of the die-off toxins.

Hope something here may help and am sure others can chime in with suggestions for things they have found helped in similar situations. Hope this passes quickly and you feel better very soon.

[kali]

Hi Maz,
So nice to meet you as well and thanks so much for your reply. I do have RA and was just recently diagnosed after searching on my own for years and going through numerous other treatments for chronic pain. It has been really bad since 2008 – but was smoldering away in there long before!
I am usually very good about my diet and have been on anti candida diet for years as part of healing. I had recently begun to feel so much better that I had let my diet slip some. When the doctor said he thought my bladder problem might be due to candida I went back to being very strict…so maybe I am having die-off. I really don’t seem to have any current sx that would lead me to believe I have excessive fungal overgrowth. I’m not even sure the diflucan helped me since I finally got some d- mannose and that’s when I started feeling better. I wonder if the diflucan itself isn’t causing this? Maybe these are all side effects (not die-off)from taking 2 doses of diflucan!
What would you recommend for detoxing. I do have some chorella. Is this ok or is there something more effective. I have very regular bowel habits so I feel like elimination is fine.

Thank You Again.

[Maz]

@kali wrote:

What would you recommend for detoxing. I do have some chorella. Is this ok or is there something more effective. I have very regular bowel habits so I feel like elimination is fine.

Hi Kali,

There is a poster here, Krys, who is very knowledgable with herbals who can probably share lots of great natural methods for detoxing with you. You can also use the search box above using key words like “Detox methods” to search for past discussion on this. 🙂

I’ve personally found FIR (far infrared) saunas to be wonderful for detoxing. This is the model I bought for home use,but there are some less expensive portable versions as low as $200 to $300 dollars. It’s a lifestyle change to use a FIR sauna on a regular basis, so it’s really what one is able to spend on a model when taking into account regular, long-term use. I think I’ve probably paid for mine a few times over by now. The carbon-paneled models are preferable for more diffuse heat, but ensuring no toxic glues or other materials were used in its construction and that it fits in the space you have are probably the most important things to factor in when choosing a particular model:

http://www.evolutionhealth.com/Infrared_Saunas/fibercarbon/infrared-sauna-1personCarbon.html

To knock out a flare, Glutathione IV pushes and Myers Cocktails are pretty amazing, too. If you can’t find a local doc who will do these, then there are other supps to boost glutatione naturally in the body, like NAC (N-acetylcysteine),which is a precursor to glutathione, the body’s master detoxifying agent that is manufactured in the liver. The liver is like the body’s garbage disposal unit, but glutathione production gets depressed by an overworked liver. Other glutathione boosters are things like undenatured whey protein (e.g. Immunocal, Warrior’s Whey or ImmunoPro).

It’s oxidative stress in the body that causes the damage in RA, which is initiated by inflammation. So, anything that is anti-oxidative is supportive, too, like ALA (alpha lipoic acid), grapeseed extract, milk thistle or resveratrol.

Drinking lots of fresh pure water is something simple to do, but very effective. Keeping bowels moving regularly (great you’re doing so well with this) to remove waste and toxins carried out of the body is also vital. Stagnant waste in the gut just gets recirculated otherwise, as you probably already know. 😉

Another simple thing to try at home is to make the lemon/olive oil detox drink. This is easy to make by quartering a scrubbed lemon and putting it (including rind) in to a blender with a couple tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil and a cup or two of water. Some folk add stevia sweetner or honey to taste, but I like it tart…I also throw in a few ice cubes and a bit of ginger root. When fully blended, just use a metal strainer to strain out the pulp, which is then discarded. This drink acts like a slow liver flush to help detox the liver. I’ve also done liver and gall bladder flushes and coffee enemas which I’ve found can knock out flares overnight. It’s kind of interesting that these natural detox methods have been so vilified by some, but “the proof of the pudding is in the eating,” as far as I’m concerned, and I am open to trying anything at least once, if it’s pretty innocuous and not likely to do any harm, and these natural methods have worked so effectively for me.

I haven’t yet read the Sherry Roger’s book, “Detoxify or Die,” but I understand it’s well worth the read.

Must dash now, but hopefully others can chime in for you, Kali, on what detox methods have worked for them. Lots of things to try, so don’t feel overwhelmed by it all. Just see what resonates with you and what you feel comfy trying, yourself. If you have an ND who can support you, all the better.

[kali]

Maz,
Thank you so much for your time and thorough explanation of detoxing options. I have thought many times about getting an infared sauna. I think you have just swayed my decision to do so. The other tips are great too. I really wish I could do some clindamycin IV’s. My doc does IV treatments. Can anyone tell me about obtaining clindamycin that it is not too expensive? Also, how long is its shelf life? This is why I have had a hard time getting glutathione IV’s. He says the shelf life is only 7 days and he would not use a whole case on folks.

[kali]

Also,
What is a Meyers cocktail?

[246bride]

Maz,
how often do you drink the lemon/olive oil combo?
Thanks!
Carey

[Rosemary Perth Aust.]

Kali Maz has given you some wonderful advice as always. I was wondering if the diflucan may be causing you to herx; just wanted to let you know that I am changing med at present and having a hard time also doing that of course and Ester C powder is wonderful for herxing. Just one teaspoon in a glass of water. I have it ready in the glass so when it is bad all I have to do is add the water as I just cannot move lately its been so bad. Its my own fault though trying to rush it and taking too much. Hope this helps. always handy to know about it.

[nspiker]

Hi Kali,

A Meyer’s cocktail is an IV administered combination of vitamins and minerals. Here’s a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers%27_cocktail. As far as the lemon olive oil drink goes, you can take it daily. Also, just lemon and water works well to detoxify and chlorella is great for binding the toxins.

I’ve been doing Clindamycin IV’s for two years, and feel that they are great in kick-starting recovery. They also bypass the gut, so you shouldn’t be bothered by any of the gut side-effects. For me, the IV’s are covered by insurance. As long as your doctor codes your diagnosis as infection based, or mycoplasma, there should be no problem (unless you have Medicare). If you don’t have insurance coverage, and If your doctor is wiling to prescribe and administer the IV’s, you can probably find a supplier for the clindamycin. The shelf life for clindamycin IV, after it is mixed, is about a month – at least that is the case with mine.

nancy

[Michele]

Hi Kali,
You have some great feedback from the above posters. I just want to chime in to mention that Diflucan caused an enormous flare for me because I was on another medication. (benicar). So in case you are on any thing other than doxy you might look for a possible cross reaction. If not, diflucan can certainly create a herx by itself. From my observations it shouldn’t last very long. I hope this was a candida die off and you are already starting to feel better!

Detox is really helpful. Maz posted some great ideas! If you are already in pain from die off I would suggest you detox before attempting an IV.

Michele

[kali]

You guys are all so awesome! Thanks so much for the great detox ideas and the confirmation that the diflucan could have caused all of this. I am quite certain that it did since I was doing fine until taking 2 doses of it! I will see my doctor again mid month and ask him about clindy IV’s…again. He administers IV meds in his office – but I get the feeling that he is hesitant to do this. Maybe it it a matter of expense or insurance billing…not sure. I am also going to try to switch to Mino and remind him that this may help prevent the yeast overgrowth. I am not taking any extra anti-fungals or anti-bacterials right now and I am trying to detox with plenty of lemon water and chorella. I am going to purchase a blender this weekend and start on the liver detox that Maz suggested with lemon, rind and olive oil. I have honestly been afraid to do too much detoxing and just let my body come back to some state of balance. I have increased my Ester C and that has helped! I feel like I might be ‘out of the woods’ in a few more days 🙂
Thanks again everyone!
Kali

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