Early Onset Osteoarthritis

[aynurrzepa]

Hi there,

I know, it’s been a long time!

I’m fine, very busy, my SD is well undeer control 🙂 My ANA still negative 🙂

I have a Q – can Osteorthritis be treated by AP? What’s the main differrence between ostearthritis (OA) and other types of arthritis? Can a person (she is only 21!) benefit from all the things we discuss here – diet change (surely will help anyone with most of things) and most importnatnly, AP? Is there an infectious theory OA? I don’t rememebr reading in in our books…

Thanks in advance!

[lynnie_sydney]

Hi Aynur – long time no see! Glad to hear things are going well. My understanding is that it is generally thought that antibiotics are not helpful for osteoarthritis, which is caused by ‘wear and tear’. The rationale for using abx with rheumatoid forms of athrides is that they are caused by underlying infection. This post may shed some more light. You might also use the search function for others.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6158&p=54658&hilit=osteoarthritis#p54658

Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)

[DragonSlayer]

Hi, aynurrzepa:

Does it make any sense for a young person to develop a wear-out mechanism of arthritis?

I think what this means is that a physician does not have a clue as to the underlying cause of the bone destruction, if any has been found.

My thoughts on osteoarthritis are that, once the damage has occurred there is little that can be done. However, a group in Canada found a possible reason for the mechanism behind osteoporosis: OPGL (OsteoPoretGerin Ligand) that changes the ratio of osteoblasts to osteoclasts in favor of bone depletion. And OPGL is related to infection, the production is increased apparently in the presence of every kind of infection. If the osteoporosis causes bone deterioration at joints it could appear as osteoarthritis, especially in early stages of osteoporosis where greatest level of depletion is at bone ends. I would HOPE that osteoporosis and ensuing osteoarthritis can be PREVENTED.

So, I believe there could be some help from antibiotics, and in Giraud Campbell’s book “A Doctor’s Proven New Home Cure for Arthritis,” there is X-ray evidence presented that bone mass can be increased and bone repaired to some extent by employing his dietary regimen (essentially NSD–NO Starch Diet, so the role of Klebsiella-or similar-bacteria is suspect).

I would be interested in a bone scan and even HLA B27 testing just because that is my focus and AS is EARLY osteoporosis/ EARLY osteoarthritis.

But the antibiotic regimen I would use is perhaps not standard for RA.

Good Luck to You and the young lady,
John

[aynurrzepa]

Thanks so much for your responses…

I too think a bit sceptically about the osteorthritis at such young age – is it possible? She is doing regular exercises including runnig, but still, at age 21? She used to be overweight betweek ages 10 and 15… I wonder if this could be the case of ill diagnosed RA or of similar type? I will ask her if she had her RF ESR checked and what the results were… Also it makes sense to sheck her for osteoporosis, right? How easily can she get tested for OPGL and HLA B27?

Surely I would be advising her to change her diet which currently is very heavy on carbs and marg and low in good proteins, fats and veggies…

Aynur

[Maz]

@aynurrzepa wrote:

Thanks so much for your responses…

I too think a bit sceptically about the osteorthritis at such young age – is it possible? She is doing regular exercises including runnig, but still, at age 21? She used to be overweight betweek ages 10 and 15… I wonder if this could be the case of ill diagnosed RA or of similar type? I will ask her if she had her RF ESR checked and what the results were… Also it makes sense to sheck her for osteoporosis, right? How easily can she get tested for OPGL and HLA B27?

Surely I would be advising her to change her diet which currently is very heavy on carbs and marg and low in good proteins, fats and veggies…

Aynur

Hi Anyur,

Lovely to hear from you and to read your story in the “Our Roads Back” book compiled by Dr. H. R.! You’re famous, girl! 😀

Yes, there have been studies using doxycycline for osteo and you’ll find a few references on PubMed. Here is one article I’ve quickly pulled up for you:

“Study results reported in Arthritis & Rheumatism (July 2005 issue) suggest that treatment with the antibiotic doxycycline may slow the progression of osteoarthritis. Doxycycline is an antibiotic belonging to a class of medicines called “tetracyclines.”

http://arthritis.about.com/od/oa/a/doxcycline.htm

Osteoarthritis is considered a degenerative condition caused by age and wear and tear. In the young, however, this isn’t as common, and I’d definitely look further into a few things like ovarian hormones and thyroid/parathyroid function, as well as rheumatic possibilities. There has been a lot of info posted, too, on “acidosis,” where the body goes into an acidic state due to the kidneys inability to remove acid from the body.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_acidosis

Metabolic acidosis, however, is a distinct and critical health state that is different from that of chronic low grade acidosis that doctors, who are of a more integrative or naturopathic bent, believe is a cause of chronic health states which can cause the body to become overly acidic (medications, diet, etc). It is this chronic low grade state that is thought to lead to leaching of calcium from the bones to maintain pH homeostasis in the body. There is a lot of debate about this type of acidosis, but it’s interesting that those in chronic pain states often find that supplementing with alkalizing minerals (e.g. epsoms salts baths or using Tri-salts) will actually relieve pain. Just something further for you to research, if interested, and A Friend has posted quite a bit on this topic.

While there have been studies on the use of doxy for osteoarthritis, it isn’t considered a standard of care for its treatment, so would likely be considered “experimental,” and would need an open doc to help.

Just some further thoughts for your possible interest and hope your young friend finds her answers soon.

[PhilC]

Hi Aynur,

Which of her joints are affected?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[aynurrzepa]

Thanks Maz!

U think I’m famous? 😉 But speaking seriously, I think it’s just a little contribution from us to the world re AP and peoples’ health! And thanks a million for so many useful and interesting leads – I’ll surely investigate.

I would not be surprised if she has some acidosis issues or probs with ovarian hormones (she also has lumps in her breasts from poor ovulatory cycle and excess of estrogen (if not mistaken) and even with thyroid … she is struggling to keep her weight down, has mimigranes and is very lethargic (and irritable, moody, inclined to depressions)… All that at age 21!

Phil, hi! Long time… It’s in the knees. After driving for a while, they are agony while walking and standing is OK throughout the day…

[DragonSlayer]

Hello, Aynur:

Also it makes sense to sheck her for osteoporosis, right? How easily can she get tested for OPGL and HLA B27?

I would expect a bone scan would already have been recommended by the physician. Regret, I don’t think there is any commercialized test for OPGL, and the standard one for B27 antigen is not so good (seriological results in 25-35% false negatives) and perhaps off the mark here if no symptoms of Early AS are reported, but it is certain that SOME underlying condition is at work on her bones and it does seem that occult or unidentified infection could play some role.

HEALTH,
John

[aynurrzepa]

I see, John… Nothing is easy when trying to investigate the underlying reasons for how we feel…

Will add bone scan test to the to do list, thanks.

I believe the most important is that she changes her diet straight away and quite dramatically, to start with… This can be a long journey for her… 🙁 Her name is Tanya, she is my husbands oldest daughter…

She is in England, studying. NHS is a bit slow and as we know purely allopathic. So I’m trying to help her from Dubai…

[PhilC]

Hi Aynur,

If it is really osteoarthritis, then Celadrin and glucosamine HCl should be helpful. Has she had a vitamin D test? If not, it would probably be a good idea to get that checked.

You said that she is in England now. Did this problem start there, or did she have it before she left for England?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[maz.aust]

Hi Aynur,

Just thought I would put in my 2 cents worth …
I have osteoarthritis in only 2 places, the underside of both my wrists, & yes in my case all due to wear & tear. However, since I have been on AP and all but deleted starches, gluten & sugar etc I have not had any pain in those areas for 2-1/2 yrs now .. so to my mind something has happened for the better, and it is all due to changing my diet. I have no doubt I still have osteoarthritis but I don’t appear to have any physical symptoms any more.

As to a 21 yr old having osteoarthritis, at that age I very much doubt it & would be insisting on a 2nd opinion, look for the originating cause. I agree with John, diet should help, she needs to cut out the carbs, starches and sugar & see if that makes a difference. & the biggie, I suggest a test to see what her Vitamin D levels are at, low Vit D can have a detrimental affect on the bones and being that she is in UK and 21 I am guessing that she may be very sun conscious ?? See this link re the lack of Vit D (which can’t be purchased in a bottle)

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2011-07-scientists-blood-vitamin-d-deficiency.html

Good luck.
Maz-Aust

Dec07: Diagnosed PRA, (CTD; Fibromyalgia; suspected Lyme):
Mar08: Diet to heal gut/bolster immune system (no gluten, dairy, sulphites or sugar)

Jan 2018: ABX Mon/Wed/Fri (started AP 2008)
1/2 x 150mg Roxithromycin(Biasig), 1/2 x 150mg Clarithromycin (Klacid),
1/2 x Fungillin, 1 x 250mg Cephalexin (Keflex)

All off days Probiotics

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