Do dogs suffer like people?

[mj47]

Hey all,

This post is indeed about a dog, but I feel like I should discuss this with my friends here on the board because what I’ve found just seems too coincidental & I have a hard time believing in coincidences. If you’re a dog lover (or even if you’re not), please read on & let me know your thoughts.

So, I found a dog about 3 weeks ago. She’s a little shih tzu or lhasa apso mix. Super sweet. I’ve been looking for the owners to no avail. Now we’re thinking about keeping her.
Problem is, she has what’s known as dry eye. Apparently it’s a lifelong condition that I’ve been told will require drops every day. The drops are immunosuppresants. Cyclosporine or tacrolimus are the top rec drugs. I’m so wary of having immunosupressants around myself, but more importantly, my husband who worked so hard to get off of methotrexate & is doing so well on just mino.
In doing some research to see if there’s another way to treat this, I came across this article on canine dry eye (also known as KCS): http://www.vetlatranquera.com.ar/pages/wild/small_animal_33.htm
In it, they say that most often dogs who suffer from this are experiencing an autoimmune reaction that reduces tear production (the common belief in the vet world). How, they don’t know (sound familiar??). They also say that often dogs also have other autoimmune issues in conjunction with KCS, like hypothyroid or – get this – rheumatoid factor!! (again…sound familiar??)

I’ve never owned a dog (been a cat person for years) so, my questions to you all are the following:

*Has anyone successfully treated their dog’s KCS & no longer needs to treat it? If so, how?

*Do you all think that the tacrolimus immunosupressant eye drops are dangerous to my husband? It’s impossible to get them in her eyes, they get all over. Is is possible for the drops to be absorbed through the skin?

*Has anyone ever considered treating this like you all are treating your autoimmune inflammation…using an oral antibiotic such as mino to reduce the inflammation??

I would love any & all input on this as this is a new world for me. She seems like such a gem, I want to help her as best I can. I know this is a post about a dog, but dogs seem to be much more similar to people than cats & the coincidences of autoimmune inflammatory response just seems too weird.

Oh, one more thing. While I’m trying to figure this out, I have started her on some herbal drops called Eyebright that are supposed to help w/ inflammation & eye irritation. If anyone has experience with this herb either on your dog or yourself, please let me know!!

As always, a big huge thanks & looking forward to hearing from you!
mj

[Trudi]

Hi MJ–

Many years ago, my husband suffered from very dry eyes, to the point that in the a.m. a portion of his cornea would come off if he wasn’t very careful when opening his eyes. He saw a number of opthamologists who were of no help. He eventually went to see my optometrist. He recommended a very low dose of antibiotics for one month. It solved the problem and he hasn’t been bothered with it since :).

Good luck–
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[mj47]

Wow, very interesting Trudi! I wonder if they ever do anything like that for dogs….
Do you happen to remember what the antibiotic was?
Thanks for the info!
~mj

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi MJ;
You just might be in luck here as Maz’s dad is a vet and she might have picked up info from him.
I am a cat owner and have had a dry eye problem with one of my cats for years.I use a liquid eye/ear drop used for people.Polysporin worked quite well but needed to be used every couple of weeks for 2-3 days as it wears off.Hope this helps.
Lynne,mother of many pets.

[mj47]

Oh yeah Lynne! I forgot that Maz’s dad is a vet.
Maaaazz….have ya got anything for me on this one? 🙂 😆

I love this place….
mj.

[Trudi]

@mj47 wrote:

Do you happen to remember what the antibiotic was?

Unfortunately, no. Hopefully Maz can help you out!
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Krys]

@mj47 wrote:

…most often dogs who suffer from this are experiencing an autoimmune reaction that reduces tear production… dogs also have other autoimmune issues in conjunction with KCS, like hypothyroid or – get this – rheumatoid factor!! (again…sound familiar??)

*Do you all think that the tacrolimus immunosupressant eye drops are dangerous to my husband? It’s impossible to get them in her eyes, they get all over. Is is possible for the drops to be absorbed through the skin?

I have started her on some herbal drops called Eyebright that are supposed to help w/ inflammation & eye irritation. If anyone has experience with this herb either on your dog or yourself, please let me know!!
mj

I wrote a lengthy post and it disappeared on me.
Can your husband use gloves, long sleeve shirt, while administering the drops?
My present onset of Lyme started with dry eyes, uveitis, loose cornea hanging out in layers upon awakening. I’ve been taking Gingko, Gotu kola, Bilberry, Bupleurum (Chinese medicine links eye problems to liver as they share the same meridian; Bupleurum is a powerful liver tonic that also strengthens the eyes and the vision), Eyebright, and for a few months, prior to antibiotics I used Goldenseal (can be used both internally and when well diluted, as an external eyewash) and whenever I remember I use Lutein (spinach extract, as a natural carotenoid found in the eye and retina, capable of protecting and even reversing cataracts, macular degeneration, even blindness). I think both herbs and then definitely antibiotics and intense detoxification helped. I saw very drastic improvement after using cholestyramine for detox. Brain and eye inflammation disappeared as per computerized assessment I was doing monthly at the time. In reality it did not quite disappear; in my case it is bugs and their toxins which are still within my system, but intense detox helps even if for a time only. And dry eyes and loose cornea have been gone for about 6 months now.
Other useful herbs, applied internally or as eye washes, or diluted as drops:
CALENDULA: healing, soothing, good for inflammation, itching, swelling in bacterial or viral conjunctivitis. Antiseptic, immune modulating. Apply as a local compress and eyewash or in an eye drop formula.
Cayenne: anti-inflammtory for irritated mucous membranes, conjunctivitis. Use in very small amounts, well diluted or in a compound eye drop formula. Initially causes redness, then pain relief, increases blood flow to eyes.
Coleus
Dusty Miller
Chamomile: used as eye drops and eye compresses even for infants. Soothing anti-inflammatory.
EYEBRIGHT***: for conjunctivitis or eye irritation/inflammation. Soothes and heals bloodshot, burning, itchy eyes, light sensitivity, sticky eye gum, or acrid yellow discharges. Use internally and as drops. Much safer and effective long-term than commercial eye drops.
Gingko: increases circulation, oxygenation and nutrition of the eyes. Prevents free radical damage, protects eye capillaries, clears toxins. Used in retinopathy, cataracts, macular regeneration, glaucoma.
GOLDENSEAL: anti-inflammatory and antibiotic against wide range of bacteria. Draws fluids from surrounding tissues and decreases swelling. Useful in conjunctivitis, irritation from pollutants, styes, infections of eye or lid.
Goldthread: treats inflammation or infection of eyes, conjuntiva, mouth, throat. antibacterial and antiviral, reduces inflammation, good pain reliever. Use as both internally and, well diluted, as an external eye wash.
Grape Seed Extract: protects eye from damage from exposure to sun and UV radiation. Strengthens retinal capillaries, prevents clots or bleeding. provides vital nutrients, increases night vision and slows eye aging.
LUTEIN (Spinach Extract): described earlier.
Almost all of the above is taken from “Herbal Remedies” by Asa Hershoff, N.D. and Andrea Rotelli, N.D.
Strong tea compresses help.
I’ll check tomorrow for homeopathic remedies.

I think you can make it easier on yourself and your cute friend by explaining all you are doing and why you are doing it to him. Animals do understand! Just talk from the heart. Be calm, and while talking, really mean what you are saying. Ask him to help you help him. It works!!!
It might be easier to give herbs internally if you prepare the food for him from scratch. You can find out why not using ready dog formula might be useful by searching Dr. Mercola’s website. I may be making it up now (my memory is still bound to improve!) but out of blue, I seem to remember that ready made dog food contains soy and roughage that is completely indigestible for dogs and also rancid fats. The eye problem may be exacerbated by allergies to food (in autoimmune problems it happens a lot). It could be easier to add herbs if you prepared food yourself. Eye compresses may be easier to administer than drops. And if you buy herbs in bulk, brew tea, strain it well through a gauze, soak a small towel and explain to the doggie what you are going to do and why, it may turn out easy!
I saw on the internet while checking for dog eye problems, a formula that contained very interesting herbs, one used for treating Lyme! I don’t have a link now.
Hope any of the above helps!
Oh, another thing you can check: if the eye problem is due to toxins, there should be a dark circle on the outermost layer of the iris. It should apply to animals, too. I though I read it on Mercola’s site, but when I checked for “iridology” I did not find that in that article:
You do know that the “coincidence” that brought you and your little friend together, may indeed be a whole treasure of blessings for you and for your family. I think it is. Warm wishes, Krys

[maz.aust]

Sorry but don’t know about this condition in dogs (or people with a diagnosis for this problem for that matter) however if he/she shakes her head whilst trying to get the drops in I suggest you wrap her/him tightly in a towel whilst one pushes the top of her muzzle down & the other puts the drops in.. that way you are not trying to keep the whole dog controlled only the head.

Maz – Aust,
ps – I was dx with dry eyes some 20+ years ago, however after about 6 mths saw a specialist who realised after testing that I don’t actually shut my eyes properly when I blink, hence the eyes dried out. I was instructed to deliberately every 15 min or so close & open my eyes 3 times in a row, since then I haven’t had any problems & yes I still do this every 1/2 hr or so. Just as an aside, the other interesting thing over here is that my current vet & vet surgeon both agree that RA in dogs is rare it’s usually OA, however if they find a dog has a positive RA factor they both agree they treat with llong term use of abx; they maintain they have known about this treatment for some years – in fact my female vet found out this was a treatment option when she was still training.

Dec07: Diagnosed PRA, (CTD; Fibromyalgia; suspected Lyme):
Mar08: Diet to heal gut/bolster immune system (no gluten, dairy, sulphites or sugar)

Jan 2018: ABX Mon/Wed/Fri (started AP 2008)
1/2 x 150mg Roxithromycin(Biasig), 1/2 x 150mg Clarithromycin (Klacid),
1/2 x Fungillin, 1 x 250mg Cephalexin (Keflex)

All off days Probiotics

[mj47]

krys – wow. that sounds painful. so glad that your treatment worked well & that your eyes are no longer dry. i will probably start making some chamomile tea compresses for the dog. she really likes to have warm compresses put on her one bad eye. i think it’s soothing to her. thanks for all the information that you provided. i have been putting the eyebright drops in her food so that she takes it internally & giving her fake tears/ointment until i decide if i’m going to use the tacrolimus drops. it’s only been 2 days, but i swear that the redness she had around her iris has gone down. i appreciate your input! 🙂 mj

maz.aust – thanks for your input. yes, the vet i spoke with was familiar with doxy for animals with rheumatoid arthritis but was unfamiliar with minocycline. it was kind of funny to have a vet take notes from me. 😆 the dog does ok with the drops, doesn’t fight with her body…she’s just real quick to turn her head. i’d rather not do the towel thing & stress her out. seems like it works better if i get her relaxed with her head laying down & then drop the drops in from the side. glad to hear your eyes got better. – mj

[A Friend]

@mj47 wrote:

Hey all,

….I found a dog about 3 weeks ago. ….Now we’re thinking about keeping her.
Problem is, she has what’s known as dry eye. Apparently it’s a lifelong condition that I’ve been told will require drops every day. The drops are immunosuppresants. ….my husband who worked so hard to get off of methotrexate & is doing so well on just mino.
In doing some research to see if there’s another way to treat this, I came across this article on canine dry eye (also known as KCS): http://www.vetlatranquera.com.ar/pages/wild/small_animal_33.htm
In it, they say that most often dogs who suffer from this are experiencing an autoimmune reaction that reduces tear production (the common belief in the vet world). ….They also say that often dogs also have other autoimmune issues in conjunction with KCS, like hypothyroid or – get this – rheumatoid factor!! (again…sound familiar??)

I’ve never owned a dog (been a cat person for years) so, my questions to you all are the following:

*Has anyone successfully treated their dog’s KCS & no longer needs to treat it? If so, how?

*Do you all think that the tacrolimus immunosupressant eye drops are dangerous to my husband? It’s impossible to get them in her eyes, they get all over. Is is possible for the drops to be absorbed through the skin?

*Has anyone ever considered treating this like you all are treating your autoimmune inflammation…using an oral antibiotic such as mino to reduce the inflammation??

I would love any & all input on this as this is a new world for me. She seems like such a gem, I want to help her as best I can. I know this is a post about a dog, but dogs seem to be much more similar to people than cats & the coincidences of autoimmune inflammatory response just seems too weird.

Oh, one more thing. While I’m trying to figure this out, I have started her on some herbal drops called Eyebright that are supposed to help w/ inflammation & eye irritation. If anyone has experience with this herb either on your dog or yourself, please let me know!!

As always, a big huge thanks & looking forward to hearing from you!
mj

Am running, so this will be brief (for me, anyway…lol). My grand-dog had an accident that hurt her hip and had to have serious surgery about two weeks ago. Labs, we understand, are prone to arthritis. So, here are some things we are beginning and/or planning to begin. 1) The store where pet food is purchased has gluten-free dog food, and we will probab ly be alternating two kinds of this, to help with any possible gut issues; 2) for my own eye issues, recently Restasis was prescribed… I didn’t like what I read about it (or the cost) and looked into studies, etc., and posts from a FlaxOil2 group and happened to see some posts in the FILES section by two patients who had unbelievable results (this should only be used if/when we know all we need to know); another part of this #2 item: in the eye studies I’ve read, a high quality fishoil supplement taken orally has been very effective for lubricating the eyes, comparable to an RX sometimes prescribed; 3) several years ago, while doing a search for Antibiotic Protocol for animals, a web site of a (very astute, I think) veterinarian showed up, and told how the low-dose abx therapy had helped arthritis animals… couldn’t find it on a recent day, but probably will later; 4) recent Boron information has caught my attention. If you go to http://www.arthritistrust.org and do a Google search (available for inside the web site), you can search for Boron article; or even better still (for your dog and for your husband) do a search for arthritistrust directors — this was an exciting find. One of the doctors/scientists with a long history of good work has an outstanding article on this subject; and, just found this morning a web site that encourages me about using boron citrate for my grand dog… the link to this is:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/894.html Will remain in touch on this subject. Good luck!

[Maz]

Hiya MJ,

Just responded to your PM. 🙂

[Author]

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