D3 and Increase in CRP

[DianeTexas]

First I am feeling guilty for being gone so long and that I still have not done my testimonial……. 😐 And here I am with an issue. 😮

Started seeing Dr. F last spring, this past summer my CRP finally got back into range (Yea!). After my fall visit in October I started on 5,000 mg D3 daily. I did wonder about this with Trevor Marshall’s thoughts on Vitamin D.

After about 3 weeks on the D3 I could tell something was going on, finally at the end of December I stopped cause it was bringing back symptoms. I just got my December blood work, my CRP went from 4.2 in July to 65 now! Some of the pain has left since I stopped the supplement but not all. I go back out to CA next month.

Any thougts?

Best Regards,
Diane

[Lynne G.SD]

Hi Di;
I totally agree with TM as I tried regular AP and a modified MP.Modified being that I took a lower dose of benicar and only avoided sun during the worst part of the day.I did not use sunglasses but avoided foods with D.Regular AP did not help much and things only got better after several months with no D foods.Possibly it worked better as I only found out afterwards that I have Lyme and that needs several antibiotics that are used in MP.

[PhilC]

Hi Diane,

5000 I.U. of vitamin D per day is a fairly high dose. Why were you taking that much?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[DianeTexas]

That was the dosage the dr. told me to take……….. Of course after having problems and reading I now quesiton that dosage…..

[PhilC]

@DianeTexas wrote:

That was the dosage the dr. told me to take.

Did he say why? Did he test you for vitamin D and find that you had a low level in your blood?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[PhilC]

Hi Lynne,
@Lynne G./SD wrote:

Hi Di;
I totally agree with TM as I tried regular AP and a modified MP.

Dr. Marshal claims that vitamin D is an immunosuppressant. An elevated CRP seems inconsistent with that claim.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[PhilC]

Hi Diane,

This may explain your reaction to the sudden large increase in your dose of vitamin D:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6830

Just thought I’d send this message to make sure that you didn’t miss the one on vitamin D that I just posted…

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Krys]

Phil,
Would you know how to increase it to stay on the safe side? I’m supposed to be taking 50,000 IU of D3 weekly for 8 weeks.
My D = 13.3 VERY LOW Range 40 – 100.
I just started taking it last week. I often forget to take it so the next day I may take 10,000 IU.
I had been taking almost daily (prior to the test) cod liver oil + often additional stuff, which I understand, has all wrong ratio of vit A to vit D.
Krys

[kater]

Hi Krys
while it seems we can no longer get d3 testing done in Canada for some reason, my naturopath told me that because of being on codliver oil for a number of months, plus the SD, that I would be very deficient in d3. He put me on 10000 iu for one month, 5000 iu for the next, and 3000iu after that. I just finished the month of 10000 and couldn’t see any problems from it (though I don’t exactly know what type of problems it causes)–and I don’t have RA. I have been on AP for 2 and a half months now and have seen some improvements in my hands and forearms, some worsening of tightness in my body but that is just stable now. Pressing on! I will reply on the other thread about the GAPS diet when I get a minute.
thx
kate

Systemic Scleroderma since 2010. Lyme and Myco P. AP and many other antibiotics and treatments since Nov. 2011. Presently mostly in remission other than fatigue.
Teva Minocycline 100mg a day. Dessicated tyroid, LDN 4.5, LDI, hawthorne, curcurmin, berberine,, caprylex, reishi mushroom, liver protect, zinc,, fish oils, magnesium, vit K2, d3, bcomp, E, C

[Krys]

@kater wrote:

Hi Krys
10000 iu for one month, 5000 iu for the next, and 3000iu after that.
kate

Can you please explain? Do you mean 10,000 a day for a month, 10000 a week for a month or 10000 a month?

I’ve learned just lately that cod liver oil has the wrong ratio, but I needed vit. A, and I guess I still do, quite desperately? So I’ll have to figure out how to take both (the right way) and make my eyes, my mucous membranes all throughout my body and the whole body happy! 😀
Thanks, Krys

[kater]

yes 10000 per day for one month, then 5000 a day for the next, then 3000 a day for the future. Yes I have no idea how to take Vit a with d or the correct amounts but I will be seeing him soon and will try to remember to ask his opinion on that. All he said was throw away codliver oil and take fish oil instead!
hope this helps
kate

Systemic Scleroderma since 2010. Lyme and Myco P. AP and many other antibiotics and treatments since Nov. 2011. Presently mostly in remission other than fatigue.
Teva Minocycline 100mg a day. Dessicated tyroid, LDN 4.5, LDI, hawthorne, curcurmin, berberine,, caprylex, reishi mushroom, liver protect, zinc,, fish oils, magnesium, vit K2, d3, bcomp, E, C

[cavalier]

Not sure what you are measuring in the CRP IF it is for heart risk – there is a much better test to show risk of heart attack or stroke – http://www.plactest.com/ has some info about this – there is a number of labs who can perform this test now. Best person to ask about is your PCP if they are a internist or your Cardio. My Cardio is looking into which one has the best markers for me. Costs have really come down to get this run – about roughly 45 to 60 dollars out of pocket.

Best Jill

[PhilC]

Hi Krys,
@Krys wrote:

Phil,
Would you know how to increase it to stay on the safe side? I’m supposed to be taking 50,000 IU of D3 weekly for 8 weeks. My D = 13.3 VERY LOW Range 40 – 100.

Unfortunately, no. However, my own personal inclination would be to take no more than 4,000 IU/day (the tolerable upper intake level) every day and be patient. I do tend to be fairly cautious, though. Some people believe that it is safe to take as much as 10,000 IU/day, so I might consider taking that much. It would go against my cautious nature to do so, though.

@Krys wrote:

I’ve learned just lately that cod liver oil has the wrong ratio, but I needed vit. A, and I guess I still do, quite desperately? So I’ll have to figure out how to take both (the right way) and make my eyes, my mucous membranes all throughout my body and the whole body happy! 😀

I don’t take vitamin A. I do get some in my multivitamin, but it is not enough. I take beta-carotene instead. That way, my body can convert as much of the beta-carotene to vitamin A as it wants.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Krys]

Diane, I’m sorry for highjacking your thread. I keep thinking about your reaction and I am buffled. Maybe the 2 links I’m posting will shed some light?

Thank you, Kate. All clear now.
You are lucky to have a wholistic doc.

To be fair, I have to admit that I DID use vit. A daily in addition to cod liver oil (taken less often than A), and it has occurred to me now that most possibly it was this single factor that messed up my vit. D. level. I should have carefully researched first! 😳

I remember some past discussions on RBF about vit. D and cod liver oil and the conclusion was that cod liver oil (could we say “undenatured” one?, i.e. not messed up with, as many are) was safe and good. But because many are not, as the 2nd quotation below explains, if one does not check carefully the label, one may end up with a problem.

Two links below defend cod liver oil (real one, good quality), relate to vit. D. and stress the importance of checking the source and ratio of vit. A and D in cod liver oil.
http://www.listen2yourgut.com/blog/winter-protection-vitamin-d-and-cod-liver-oil/

Since cod liver oil naturally contains vit. D, it is my belief that it is best to take vitamin D TOGETHER with cod liver oil to improve absorption and utilization in the body – and of course, both must be in the proper form, with healthy extraction and filtration methods used.

This one explains the vit. D controversy:
http://trusted.md/blog/vreni_gurd/2009/01/18/the_cod_liver_oil_controversy

Who would have thought that cod liver oil could be controversial?…..
However, according to the research of Weston A. Price, vitamin A is NOT toxic except in the case of vitamin D deficiency. In nature, foods that contain vitamin D also contain vitamin A, because they work synergistically.(…)The key…is that the body can use natural sources of vitamin A and D, as they are packaged in appropriate ratios. Supplementation is problematic, because frequently not only are those ratios out of whack, but also synthetic vitamin A and D are toxic…

So, what does this all mean for cod liver oil? The problem is that in the modern cleaning and processing of cod liver oil, the vitamins are frequently removed, and then synthetic vitamins are added back in, and not in the same ratios that were naturally in the oil to begin with. Cod liver oil is frequently turned into a supplement rather than the food it originally was….I think we simply need to be very picky about what cod liver oil we choose to use. Look for naturally occurring vitamin A and D, and make sure the ratio is 10:1 or less…
..this vitamin controversy does not apply to regular fish or krill oils that are used for omega 3 supplementation, as these oils do not have vitamin A or D in them.

Still a lot to ponder about when it is not just about good supplementation, but also about readjusting wrong levels due to wrong supplementation.
Warm wishes, Krys

[Krys]

@PhilC wrote:

Hi Krys,
I don’t take vitamin A. I do get some in my multivitamin, but it is not enough. I take beta-carotene instead. That way, my body can convert as much of the beta-carotene to vitamin A as it wants.

Thank you, Phil.
My body has never been good (not incapable, just not efficiently good) at converting beta-carotene into vit.A.
I’ll check out how supplementation with additional beta-carotene works! Thanks. My guess is that without vit. A, I will not heal.

@PhilC wrote:

Hi Krys,
I do tend to be fairly cautious, though. Some people believe that it is safe to take as much as 10,000 IU/day, so I might consider taking that much. It would go against my cautious nature to do so, though.
Phil

Thank you. I’m sometimes reckless, sometimes extra cautious. This time around I’m confused and incapable of deciding. Especially that I still want my vit. A. But if D slowly builds up, as it is bound to, maybe the best for me would be to start slowly (I have never taken vit. D every day) and then build up if all goes well. I liked Kate’s approach because it is fast, but yes, I’m less panicky with a slower approach. Thank you!!!
Krys

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