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Our daughter did 3 days of IV Clindamycin the first week in and has just finished her 5th week of MWF Azithromycin and this morning she started feeling terrible. Yesterday the joint pain, especially knees and ankle really kicked up and today she has been enduring that pain plus she has been very nauseous, headache, exhausted, fever, and chills. Has anyone else experienced Herxing 6 weeks into the AP protocol? She is only on Azithromycin right now and we are waiting for the Alinia to come in to start it. I’m going to check with her Doctor but I always appreciate the experience you folks have on this site since you have been through this all before. Any thoughts on if we should go ahead with the plan or should we ride this out first? Honestly, I didn’t expect this until we started pulsing in the Alinia so I’m not sure how far to push the Herxing. I am glad to see we are kicking something up. To me, that’s progress even if you have worse symptoms before you get better.
Herxing can come in waves and, for example, with bugs like Lyme disease, it can occur in monthly cycles. Some bugs are more susceptible to abx during certain times of their life cycle and sometimes when herxing occurs is part of an individual’s unique makeup and immune system reactivity. Herxing isn’t much different from a flare – it’s just a controlled flare. Whereas flares occur randomly, herxes are intentionally-induced flares. The negative effects experienced in both scenarios are, according to Brown, related to the rheumatic’s hypersensitivity to microbial endotoxins – in essence, “bacterial allergy.” So, whenever the little blighters release endotoxins is when the patient feels rough. Herxes often include new symptoms and a worsening of existing symptoms. Experienced docs want to see a herx, as it tells them the right abx are being employed. Keeping it tolerable is more about titrating dose to tolerance as people experience degrees of pain differently with some able to tolerate more than others…but there is a balance that needs to be found, as under-dosing can lead to microbial resistance.
Hope your daughter feels better soon! Is she doing any detoxing?
I can only speak for me, I herxed for a year…it’s just that each herx was less and less. It was like throwing a pebble in a pond and the waves come but over time get less and less. Each ripple is less and less. So the bad was each time a little less bad and the good was a little more good until it all evened out and went calm. I don’t recall how quickly I herxed but I’m sure it was before 6 weeks – like within days. Initially…like the first few days I felt amazing and than boom…herx. I reacted quickly to minocycline. I went through the process 2 times (long story, generic was changed on me and it was like I had to start all over again after almost I think 10 year in remission). Anyway, both times it was the same. I hope this helps.
One more thing…I had been on prednisone and celebrex for years before the minocycline. My doctor kept me on both of those during the first year of mino…and then I later slowly slowly slowly tapered off prednisone all together and reduced the celebrex etc… I think the prednisone and celebrex helped me to tolerate the herxes.
Minocycline 100mg every other day with food...lots of food: Zydus brand. Celecoxib 200mg twice per day: Greenstone brand.
Thanks so much Maz! Your posts are always so informative. To answer your question we are doing very little detoxing right now. I got homeopathic drops from her AP Doc called Drainage Milieu. I have done a very slow and low dose to start because as you may have read in my previous posts, our daughter has overcome H. Pylori and Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, both of which required some healing of her stomach lining and intestinal track before she could even tolerate much by way of oral meds or natural remedies. I also do Epson Salt foot baths every evening and dry brushing twice a day. I’m open to any other ideas.
Thank you Whalehabor! Having others experiences to draw from is very helpful even if each personal experience is different. I wonder if our daughter took longer to herx this time because she has been on antimicrobial/antibacterial natural and conventional products for most of the past 4 years. These were all to address the H. Pylori and Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth. Most of it was natural products, probably too mild and probably didn’t hit the MycoPlasma too hard but perhaps affected it some and in the fall she was on an 8 week Lyme antibiotic protocol that resulted in 5 days of NO SYMPTOMS! NO REFLUX! It turns out we found a better fit as far as Doctors go elsewhere but that trial showed me antibiotics might be the answer to her health problems. Of course, because that first Doctor only did 2 months of treatment and he hadn’t planned on going further, her symptoms came back BUT I felt it was not a coincidence. The antibiotics used for Lyme did help her Scleroderma symptoms. I can’t remember all 3 drugs but two were Metronidazole and Ivermectin. I want to say the other started with a C. I’ve wondered if the Xifaxen, Lauricin, Berberine, Alimed, Neem, Matula Tea and other things we’ve done to address these other bacterial problems she has had have indirectly helped her Scleroderma. A product that worked really well but we had to stop using it due to kidney pain after taking it for several weeks was GI Microb X. It contains many strong antibacterial plants and she could only do another product called Atrantil for a very short time. I wonder if the Sweet wormwood in that was just too much for her to handle since the GI Microb X has some Sweet wormwood too. I have wondered if all we have given her has indirectly addressed the Scleroderma and why she has progressed with her disease slowly. I guess I’ll never know. I’m just happy to have found AP to hopefully put her in remission! Today her Esphogeal Spasms are back so I know this is Herxing and not just sickness. She has only had them rarely since she was flared up badly last winter. That was an almost unbearable 3 weeks of non-stop esophageal spasms and shortness of breath. No local Doctor could tell us what was happening. Now I know it was the Scleroderma. It is when we learned Ibprophen causes her horrible Esophageal Spasms. Unfortunately, I haven’t found a substitute for what I can give her to bring a high fever down (I don’t intervene with meds unless it hits 103.5) or what to give her for bad headaches. I do use Peppermint oil for headache, just topical and that seems to help a little. Yesterday I also tried CBD oil (a little less than half the adult dose). I tried it because her knee and ankle pain didn’t let her sleep and the headache on top of it all was making her miserable. It gave her acid reflux for 10 mins, then she fell right to sleep. She said it cut the pain in half. I have only given her the CBD oil twice because I know it also affects the microbiome and so I’m very conservative but we use the CBD creams a lot for topical rubs and it does help with joint pain and even Raynaud’s, although I’m happy to report that she hasn’t had Raynaud’s since week 2 of this AP protocol. It would seem that this one symptom has disappeared!! Can’t wait for the rest to melt away slowly! Thanks again!
I will add to the mix that she is a child and is still going to get all of things that kids come down with. I never felt sure we could call anything a herx, but the possibility sure did put a bright spot on the misery. The symptoms sound like it could also be the flu that is still going around, so you might want to have her seen to rule it out. Then you would probably be left with a “just a virus” diagnosis. If they say it’s a virus and they have seen kids all week with the same thing, I would take them at them at their word. If they say it’s a virus with a confused look on their face, then I’d lean towards herx. Whatever it is, all you can do is keep them comfortable, hydrated, and wait it out.
Mom of teen daughter with Poly JIA since age 2. Current med: azithromycin 250 mg MWF.
The knee and ankle pain might respond to arnica gel, if you are looking another topical. It has worked for things for our entire family.
Mom of teen daughter with Poly JIA since age 2. Current med: azithromycin 250 mg MWF.
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