Home Forums General Discussion 8 Years on AP

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  • #308437
    Pip
    Participant

    Today is my 8 year anniversary of the first day I started AP.

    Just wanted to stop by and give a shout out to all the old-timers and any of the people I’ve known during this massive learning experience.

    For those that don’t know me, I’ve always joked that when I first found the Roadback, I told my hubby, “I’ve found a RA cult”. Five months after diagnosis, I decided to jump in, and can honestly say, it was the best decision of my life.

    Highpoints during the last year –

    I went back to work about a year and a half ago.

    Changed the diet radically and am now Paleo-lite.

    Went organic when I noticed I had minor flares when I had GMO sugar. Real sugar = no problems. GMO sugar can knock me to my knees.

    Lost just under 30 lbs.

    My MD appoints went from every 3 months to every 6 months.

    At my last appointment with Drs. F and L, we decided to try weaning me off abx.

    Yep, kind of scary. My RF is still high (250-ish???) but Dr. L wasn’t concerned. He was more concerned with the myco tests, which were nada over the last 2 or 3 visits. He said it was time to give it a try. I’m game because I’d like to see how I can do without the abx.

    We always hear about the APer’s who got their lives back and disappeared (which is pretty understandable when you’re busy 24/7), which makes me think of them like the Yeti. I just promised myself I’d make a point to come back every year just to check in.

    So here I am!

    If anybody has any questions, I’m happy to answer them.

    Never ever give up hope. This works and will keep on working as long as you figure out your tweaks.

    Pip

    #373051
    m.
    Participant

    Hi Pip!

    Thanks for your update! I remember you from when I first joined RBF in 2008.

    I am still on 200 mg Doxy MWF. I am doing well, but still have some bad days or weeks where, for whatever reason, my joints are swollen and sore.

    I’ve been thinking about adding Zith or doing part Doxy & part Mino. Waiting to hear back from Dr. S.

    How are you feeling about going off antibiotics? Those little blue and white pills are my security blanket, and yet I am curious if my body would behave one day without them.

    #373050
    Pip
    Participant

    Hey M!

    I’m kind of ambivalent. I know the only way to the cure is by going off abx or it’s just treatment, but hey, I’ve got my life back so I don’t really want to lose that, KWIM?

    Plus I have my security blanket of seeing my AP doc…he’ll let me know if the numbers aren’t where he wants them to be.

    Weren’t you supposed to switch abx around the 7 year mark as per Nicholson? That’s his protocol anyway, right? That might be your problem with still swollen joints now, what do you think?

    Also, I’m assuming you’ve done diet tweaks? Has anybody here noticed the difference that I have between GMO and organic? I’d love to talk to them. I’m just really intrigued that the difference is so noticeable in pain levels AND my family runs and hides if I cheat when we’re out. LOL Talk about hormonal surges added to pain, OMG!

    #373049
    m.
    Participant

    @Pip wrote:

    Hey M!

    I’m kind of ambivalent. I know the only way to the cure is by going off abx or it’s just treatment, but hey, I’ve got my life back so I don’t really want to lose that, KWIM?

    Plus I have my security blanket of seeing my AP doc…he’ll let me know if the numbers aren’t where he wants them to be.

    Weren’t you supposed to switch abx around the 7 year mark as per Nicholson? That’s his protocol anyway, right? That might be your problem with still swollen joints now, what do you think?

    Also, I’m assuming you’ve done diet tweaks? Has anybody here noticed the difference that I have between GMO and organic? I’d love to talk to them. I’m just really intrigued that the difference is so noticeable in pain levels AND my family runs and hides if I cheat when we’re out. LOL Talk about hormonal surges added to pain, OMG!

    Yes, it might be time to switch or add in a different antibiotic. I anticipate doing so will cause a worsening (herx) then hopefully improvements. In the big picture, the swelling & pain is nothing. I mean, I could just take some Advil and knock it back, but I have been largely without any pain meds for several years.

    I cannot pinpoint any diet or foods to joint pain. I have been gluten free since 2007 and as a result, I’m eating less processed foods and sugar, and more old-fashioned simple real foods.

    I read your mention of the blog Cooling Inflammation. I’ve done some reading there myself and I wonder if it’s ever possible to restore the gut microbiome to a balance where the immune system does not over react. I’ve often wondered if taking antibiotics makes it worse, and yet, I cannot imagine being without them!

    #373052
    Pip
    Participant

    Totally with you! I just don’t believe there isn’t a cure out there. It’s just this giant jigsaw that I can’t seem to put all the pieces together for…but I’m just gonna keep on trying, KWIM?

    You might not herx tho, think about it, it’s mostly in control. A change of abx might just be a gradual improvement.

    I got into the whole food/gut angle, reluctantly I might say, from all the research coming out about the Human Microbiome project and the specific bacterial overgrowths now tied, conclusively, to AI disease. So, AP works by lowering the bad microbes, BUT it also kills off the good ones. The question is, how do we figure out what’s needed? My hubby is a Type 1 and started resistant starches (also went Ketogenic) and now can control his numbers (brittle) when he couldn’t before. That’s a major improvement.

    And if you would have told me that I’d been reacting to GMO sugar, I’d have laughed at you. Maybe you could try that? Just move to C&H cane sugar for a month and see how you react to that? GMO sugar (beet) is in everything especially CS or HFCS. I’m becoming afraid of that sugar now…the difference is so darn noticeable. And, like you, I could get by with a single naproxen a day. And yes, I’m coming off that too. Again, it messes up the Biota. More sighs.

    Next years report I’m going to talk about my experimenting with fermentation (LMBO). We were going to start with home-made pickles…but didn’t get one, not a singe one, in the garden this year. I’m a very bad gardener (so far). SIgh.

    #373053
    Suni-One
    Participant

    Hi Pip: You wrote: Has anybody here noticed the difference that I have between GMO and organic? I’d love to talk to them. I’m just really intrigued that the difference is so noticeable in pain levels …

    I have been on AP for a year this past July. I am finally beginning to feel better! YEAH!!! You asked about food and changes made in diet and if anybody had noticed any difference. I went off gluten and “white flour” products. Luckily I live in a small town and am able to buy from a home baker (she bakes for Whole Foods here in town) gluten-free “coconut flour” bread and “cookies”. I cut out white sugar years ago when I found I was addicted to it but the sugar cravings never went away until now. I have switched to organic palm sugar (from Whole Foods or the Bulk Barn). But going off the gluten has made a huge difference. I don’t get the bloating and a lot of the swelling in my joints had gone down – so much that I am able once again to get onto the floor and do a few yoga moves without too much discomfort. I drink unsweetened organic coconut or almond milk or water and I “juice” fresh veggies and fruit, to which I add Vitamin C and a scoop of “raw, green powder” for breakfast every morning. We seldom eat potatoes or white rice but switched to quinoa or a gluten & grain free pasta or brown rice. I am sure its a combination of AP and the dietary changes I made but whatever it is it seems to be working so I am going to keep it up. I go “organic” when I can find it. I keep high grade chocolate in the house for when I feel I need a bit of a treat. Hope this helps. Glad to read you are doing so well.

    Cheers – Jan

    #373054
    m.
    Participant

    You might not herx tho, think about it, it’s mostly in control. A change of abx might just be a gradual improvement.

    I’ll let you know. Looks like I’m adding Zith 2x a week to my Doxy 3x a week.

    Next years report I’m going to talk about my experimenting with fermentation (LMBO). We were going to start with home-made pickles…but didn’t get one, not a singe one, in the garden this year. I’m a very bad gardener (so far). SIgh.

    We’ve tried homemade kefir (easy), homemade kombucha (trickier), homemade yogurt (easy), and some fermented vegetables & salsas using the whey from the yogurt production (easy). The only one we’ve stuck with on any regular basis is the yogurt, which I strain into Greek yogurt. Delicious.

    #373055
    Pip
    Participant

    Jan –

    We’ve switched to coconut or almond flour because hubby is Keto and I can’t afford calories. Sigh. My body loves to hang on to carbs of any kind. Major difference. And we’ve done a lot with coconut water, etc. LOVE it. My daughter loves the coconut or almond milk but it’s too bland for me. We buy unsweetened so she adds a little organic honey. We had dumped rice (except for daughter who rarely wants it) and potatoes but added it back in after friends who were Paleo before us went back to them because of the resistant starches and their child did so much better back on them. Still, maybe once every two weeks??? Something like that.

    Don’t you love that organic is growing so fast? The Costco here is almost entirely organic now, not that we’d buy most of it as it’s processed. Sigh. Now I sound like a Cali left-wing foodie.

    M –

    OMG, you’re years ahead of me. My daughter wants to make homemade cheese too. She eats yogurt like it’s a soda. I have to remember to inbox you when I get ready to try kefir etc….she loves that stuff.

    Just a heads up…be very careful of that Zith/doxy regime. Before my onset, I was given 3 Z-packs in a row for pneumonia and lost most of my mucosa (not that I knew what it was at the time). Then a couple of years ago, my AP docs gave me a script for Mino/Zith. After awhile I started calling the Zith portion ‘colon blow’ as a joke. It wasn’t a joke when a few years later I began to…um…rectally bleed every time I took the Zith. I took myself off. My point is, that’s a harsh abx. It was necessary for me at the time to start it because my mycos were rising per testing. Kill one bugger off, another one will try to take over the ‘hood. However, nobody thought to maybe check how I was doing on it. I don’t blame the docs…I blame myself for not going with my gut for over a year. Either way, now you know what to look out for…and why I got into the dietary changes. I knew I needed to strengthen/rebuild the mucosa and research led me to dietary changes.

    Pip

    #373056
    bonnielou
    Keymaster

    Hi Pip — so nice to hear from you and know that you are doing so well. I am overdue to head back to California and see Drs F and L. I am going to try and schedule something for this December or January — that’s a good time to leave Chicago anyway!

    Be sure to check back in and let us know how things go as you try to get off the antibiotics. I’ll be rooting for you.

    Bonnie

    Bonnie Lou
    RA 02/07,AP 10/07
    Minocycline 200mg MWF; Plaquenil 100mg 3 days/week
    Fish Oil, Ubiquinol, Turmeric, Vit C (2 grams) , MultiVit, Magnesium, Astaxanthin, D3 (5000), probiotics and a daily dose of yoga!

    #373057
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Pip,
    Could you please write more about mucosa, testing for mycos, symptoms, treatment etc. I don’t know anything about it.
    Linda L.

    #373058
    Pip
    Participant

    Bonnie!

    I’ll try…I’ve been so busy it’s like 24/7. I don’t even know what prompted me to look up at the calendar and go ‘omg, today is year 8’. LOL

    If you come in January, I’ll meet you when you see him. I just can’t do Dec because of family obligations and that fat guy in a red suit. He messes me up every year.

    Linda –

    I just wrote myself a note to come back over the weekend and give you some more info…sorry, I’m late for work.

    Pip

    #373059
    Pip
    Participant

    Linda –

    I don’t know much about the myco testing; just that most AP docs have their own labs, or send them to labs that can do the required testing. Myco’s are hard to get growing in a petrie dish, being small, CWD, and slow growing. This link kind of explains the testing – http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/mycoplasma/tab/test/ – but I once went to a Dr. Chat that was listed here and the MD was all ‘you know something is wrong, just start abx now’. He said the tests are noticeably unreliable and, also on the RB, I’ve seen posts basically saying one reason for testing is for insurance coverage assuming they can get one of the buggers to swim into the tube and the lab can find it. When I first started, John McD asked me ‘what are you going to do if the test comes up negative’ and he threw me for a loop. I thought for about 10 seconds and said ‘still do AP’. I knew this was infection based, no matter what my docs, all 10 of them, said.

    As for the mucosa – this is what I have figured out and what makes sense to me. Your mileage may vary.

    Before I ‘got RA’, I had a few things happen in close proximity to the original onset. One was being placed on 3 Z-packs, one right after another. During that time, I began to pass a clear jelly which I later learned was ‘gut mucosa’.

    This kind of describes it – sorry for being so graphic.

    http://ibdcrohns.about.com/od/relatedconditions/f/mucusstool.htm

    Time went on, that stopped, and within a few months the beginnings of PRA happened.

    Can I guarantee that’s was the onset? No. I can say that at the time of onset, I had multiple insults to GI health that I don’t think my body fully recovered from.

    For me, symptoms included pain in my salivary glands (onset later started there and then moved to my shoulder). My salivary glands kind of work as an ‘early warning system’ for me and if they go off (major excruciating pain in neck below the jaw) I will/would have a reaction to whatever I just ate. My salivary glands do not like lemons (neither do I but I use them anyway), certain processed foods (stopped most of them) and especially, Menchies Frozen Yogurt. What ever. Solved that problem by getting an ice cream machine and occasionally making homemade ice cream with stevia.

    Other symptoms I had over the years, and after learning to listen to my body, include bloating, flatulence, intestinal pain, stomach pain, and the occasional liver pain. I’d say I fixed 99% of that by switching to organic foods, adding in veggies until my body no longer reacted to the missing microbes necessary for digestion, and by working on replenishing the gut.

    Also, we get organic honey for where I was raised (it’s supposed to help reset your gut with the microbes you were born with) and use that as a sweetener if we need something for my green tea or whatever. Honey is antimicrobial, antiviral, antifungal and antibacterial. For that, you need to contact a beekeeper organization in your area. Don’t fall for any honey saying it’s organic coming in one of those bear plastic jars. See below for my explanation of how I know it’s not really organic…LOL

    Some research says that hemorrhoids are a symptom of an inflamed GI tract. I no longer have that problem. And I also think I’m the only person on the Internet talking about gross stuff like that. 🙂

    As our family has moved more Paleo-lite, we are working on figuring out how to reset the gut. There is a lot of information on using resistant starches to re-colonize the colon with the correct bacteria. We have also added in soil based probiotics, apparently not available in the USA.

    Again, this is just my story. Most of us had a lot more wrong with us than we ever knew when first diagnosed. We consider ourselves blessed that we were able to add 2 + 2 so easily because of our personal situation. While I got a rare form of RA, my husband, on the same Z-packs that I was, got diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes just before I got diagnosed with RA. He’s got a harder time trying to reset his gut because insulin hormones regulate cell metabolism. Not impossible, just harder.

    I hope I answered all your questions. Let me know if there is anything else I can explain more in depth.

    Pip

    #373060
    Anonymous
    Participant

    Thank you very much, Pip. The more we learn, the more complicated it looks, but it is better to know it.
    Linda L.

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