Doxycycline and minocycline

[June3443]

I have been on minocycline for five months this time and am noticing skin pigmentation on my face and around my ankles. Is not bad but decided to try switching to doxycycline to see if it would be as effective as the mino. I have been on doxycycline only for 6 days and I believe I can feel the muscle spasms beginning again. I was wondering if I could take the minocycline 200mg MWF and 200 mg doxycline the other days. Or, should I try pulsing MWF with just the minocycline again. I don’t want to have the spasms again. Also, my hip pain has been a little worse. I do believe the doxy helped a sinus infection I had.

At some point i would think I could reduce the amount of antibiotic I am taking. Any suggestions? I think I read a post about this but couldn’t find it.

I am taking doxycyline hyc by Mutual and minocycline by Ranbaxy.

[Maz]

@June3443 wrote:

I have been on minocycline for five months this time and am noticing skin pigmentation on my face and around my ankles. Is not bad but decided to try switching to doxycycline to see if it would be as effective as the mino. I have been on doxycycline only for 6 days and I believe I can feel the muscle spasms beginning again. I was wondering if I could take the minocycline 200mg MWF and 200 mg doxycline the other days. Or, should I try pulsing MWF with just the minocycline again. I don’t want to have the spasms again. Also, my hip pain has been a little worse. I do believe the doxy helped a sinus infection I had.

At some point i would think I could reduce the amount of antibiotic I am taking. Any suggestions? I think I read a post about this but couldn’t find it.

I am taking doxycyline hyc by Mutual and minocycline by Ranbaxy.

Hi June,

I also found doxy wasn’t as effective for me as minocycline. I was only taking 100mg mino twice daily on MWF, but when I switched to the same dose of doxy, my labs and symptoms started to worsen within a few months. So, I now take doxy daily, along with other abx that I rotate in and out…right now it’s the IV clindamcyin. Tetracycline in higher doses also worked okay, but neither as well as minocycline for me (which I can no longer take due to drug-induced lupus 😥 ).

As you’ll already know, none of us are medical folk here able to prescribe, but mino and doxy are both within the same class of abx and should be fine to take on alternating days or even on the same day (e.g. mino am and doxy pm). You might get some raised eyebrows, as others may wonder why you’re taking two abx in the same class, but I have heard of others doing this here for the same reasons.

I can’t recall your diagnosis, but one way that others have found to help counteract the hyperpigmentation some get from mino is to also take buffered Vit C daily. Mino seems to have this greater capacity for binding to iron in the blood and is probably why these darkened areas of hyperpigmentation occur (usually in areas of the body with lots of blood vessels close to skin or after getting a bruise). This is one reason why its contraindicated to take any minerals near to the abx dose, as these will bind to tetracyclines in the gut and renders the abx useless. Vit C helps to metabolize iron out of the body.

How have you been finding the Ranbaxy generic mino to be working? A few year ago, Ranbaxy got hauled in by the FDA for producing inferior generics:

http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2008/08/03/indian-drug-fir/

Hopefully, Ranbaxy has now spruced up its practices, but if you’ve recently switched generics and have found the Ranbaxy to be less effective, you may want to try a different generic, such as the ones that seem to be favored by many here, like Teva or Watson.

[PhilC]

Hi June,
@June3443 wrote:

I have been on doxycycline only for 6 days and I believe I can feel the muscle spasms beginning again. I was wondering if I could take the minocycline 200mg MWF and 200 mg doxycline the other days.

Yes, you can do that. Dr W. in NY has been using doxy plus mino for some of his patients.

@June3443 wrote:

At some point i would think I could reduce the amount of antibiotic I am taking. Any suggestions? I think I read a post about this but couldn’t find it.

Since you haven’t been on mino for very long, it’s probably premature to be thinking about reducing your dose. Also, if you have scleroderma (do you?), pulsed dosing of minocycline may not be such a good idea.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[June3443]

Thank you, Maz, for you response. I did check with my pharmacist today and she told me the same thing you did about alternating both on the same day and that some would wonder why I was taking both. What symptoms do you have when you get drug induced Lupus? I suppose I would know if I have that side effect.

The Ranbaxy brand is the one I have been on all along and it seems to be working for me. I can certainly tell when I am not taking it. I wasn’t sure about the brand Mutual for doxycycline and I didn’t know if the doxycycline Hyc and doxycycline were the same thing, but from looking on line at the conditions it is used for, it must be the one.

I have read other posts about the vitamin C. I have just been taking a chewable 500mg. I think I probably need to find the one that is easier on you stomach. It is hard for me to work the probiotic in, but I am trying. My health has become my new “job” since I got this condition.

PhilC, thank you so much for your post, too. I have diffuse SD and I think you had warned be earlier about stopping the medicine too early. I found out for myself after stopping for about six months. I got terrible muscle spasms which went away after I started minocycline again.

This is a great website and I am reminded I need to make a donation to help keep it going so that others may be helped as much as I have. Thank you and all the volunteers for your time.

[notabene]

June – We have been on minocycline about the same length of time.

In the past month, I have developed brown splotches on the fingers of my right hand and my right cheek. Two days ago, a splotch appeared on my forehead, which may be related to the inadvertent sunburn I got on Saturday (to be fair, it was complete socked-in fog and rain when I set out for the day – I’m going to start carrying a small tube of sunscreen in my purse.)

I have been rubbing a half strawberry on the brown splotches, leaving on the juice until it dries, then washing off. It has lightened a mole that appeared after a summer of Alpine hiking in 2010, and I hope that it will work with these other spots. It will no doubt take time.

The vitamin C in strawberries might be what lightens the spots. I have also started taking Vitamin C.

[Maz]

@June3443 wrote:

What symptoms do you have when you get drug induced Lupus? I suppose I would know if I have that side effect.

This is a great website and I am reminded I need to make a donation to help keep it going so that others may be helped as much as I have. Thank you and all the volunteers for your time.

June, thank you for your kind thought to make a donation. It will be gratefully received and you can be assured every cent of every donation goes back into keeping RBF alive for future generations as everyone who works for the foundation does so on a voluntary basis, even the board of directors. 🙂

If you click on the link in my signature line, you will find a post in my Progress Thread that describes how my run-in with drug-induced lupus erythematosis (DILE) began and what my doctor did to diagnose it very simply with some blood labs. Anyone who is concerned about DILE can run these labs at intervals to check their status. Fortunately, in the case of minocycline, DILE is very rare and by some estimates only occurs in 1:10000 cases….I just happened to be one of those rare schmucks. 🙄 There was some new research posted recently about how DILE occurs if you’re interested in researching this further:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7309&p=61614&hilit=dile#p61614

Very glad to hear you’ve been doing just fine on the Ranbaxy generic. 🙂 That is such good news and sounds like this company has cleaned up their act since the FDA got on their tail a few years ago (hopefully they would not be re-selling here in the US otherwise). I think this kind of thing can happen with all generics, even those manufactured by US companies that outsource to foreign countries who may not fall under the same FDA quality control standards. So, although some might argue that generics are equivalent to brands (and who can really know otherwise without an insider’s view into the industry’s manufacturing practices?) if one generic doesn’t work, then it is very worth switching out to a different generic name brand to see if it will work more effectively. Generics can vary in terms of fillers and dyes and some rheumatics are sensitive to these, so this is another consideration.

[June3443]

Thanks, Maz, for all your information. Notabene, I will try the strawberry. I wear sunblock everyday which I apply first thing each morning. I play golf about 3 times a week and also wear a hat and long sleeves even in the heat of summer. The sun feels like it is burning me. I still got brown spots on my face. I hope by taking vt. C and decreasing the amount of minocycline I am taking, the pigmentation won’t be an issue. I also get white spots I guess where the pigment is killed off. I look speckled on my arms mostly.

I have been having ringing in my right ear but am hoping that is related to my sinuses. I read that can also be a side effect of mino but I think it would be in both ears.

These a minor issues compared to what I could be having if I wasn’t on minocycline.

[Dawn]

June,

Just had to say I giggled (wryly mind you) on your statement: “My health has become my new “job” since I got this condition.”

So very true, so very sad, however, SINCE so very necessary – so VERY nice to have access to others experiences!

Thank you!
Dawn

DawnF

[kater]

June, try 1000mg of Ester C–it is buffered to be easier on the stomach. I also add Vit k2 to this. I don’t have a problem with skin pigmentation but was having an awful time with my teeth going grey (ugh) which required cleaning every 2 months–for 3 hours! Anyway, I think the C and k2 are finally working and I went 3 months this time and was out in an hour. Not fun when your teeth go grey–start to look like a witch 😆 but better than give up the mino!
cheers
kate

Systemic Scleroderma since 2010. Lyme and Myco P. AP and many other antibiotics and treatments since Nov. 2011. Presently mostly in remission other than fatigue.
Teva Minocycline 100mg a day. Dessicated tyroid, LDN 4.5, LDI, hawthorne, curcurmin, berberine,, caprylex, reishi mushroom, liver protect, zinc,, fish oils, magnesium, vit K2, d3, bcomp, E, C

[June3443]

Dawn, it is sad but true! 😆 kater, I got Ester C today and hope it helps. So far, my teeth are not “turning”; I don’t need that with my freckles! I use Hydrogen peroxide to rinse my mouth to whiten my teeth. Don’t know if that is why my teeth haven’t turned grey. What kind of procedure do they do on your teeth?

[PhilC]

Hi June,
@June3443 wrote:

I use Hydrogen peroxide to rinse my mouth to whiten my teeth. Don’t know if that is why my teeth haven’t turned grey.

How often do you do that?

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Krys]

@June3443 wrote:

I was wondering if I could take the minocycline 200mg MWF and 200 mg doxycline the other days. Or, should I try pulsing MWF with just the minocycline again. I don’t want to have the spasms again. Also, my hip pain has been a little worse.

@Maz wrote:

…mino and doxy are both within the same class of abx and should be fine to take on alternating days or even on the same day (e.g. mino am and doxy pm). You might get some raised eyebrows, as others may wonder why you’re taking two abx in the same class, but I have heard of others doing this here for the same reasons.

My LLMD agreed to my taking doxy in the morning and Minocin at night (for price reasons). I kept stalling with ordering Minocin until it was too late. With no Minocin available I started on Minocycline 2x day and I very soon developed completely black areas around my fingernails (the parts with thickened skin that I keep scratching the skin off), black tongue (NOT trush, just changed color of the tongue) and pronounced dark spots on the face. I switched to doxy and like you I find that doxy is just not as good for me as Minocycline is but my tongue is slowly getting back to pink! My Lyme is very neurological (many MS symptoms) and Minocycline was helping with those much better than Doxy. I often use Minocycline on the days I do not go out into the sun and then on the days I am out in the sun I use doxy. It seems to work well. I plan to stay on this schedule throughout the summer and in the fall switch to Minocycline 7 days a week again.

Re: Ester C
I have not taken Ester C. I have taken buffered vit.C (only because I did not want my vit. C to be derived from corn, and buffered was the only one I found to be non-corn) and I found out it did not work for me that well. The buffering agent means addition of calcium and magnesium and the ratio is established by the needs of healthy individuals which is 2:1, and in my case it was a cause of problems. I seem to need much more magnesium than calcium and the buffered vit.C offers the fixed ratio 2:1. In my case it meant constriction of the veins, elevated blood pressure, impaired blood flow to the brain and inability to sleep.
Plain ascorbic acid does not cause those problems for me.
Vitamin C Foundation seems to promote plain ascorbic acid http://vitamincfoundation.org/esterc.htm
To avoid stomach reactions to increased acidity of plain ascorbic acid, you may add a little bit (like 1/3 – 1/4th of a tsp of baking soda. Make sure your baking soda does not contain aluminum! Vitacost sells aluminum-free baking soda and so do many stores).

@Maz wrote:

…one way that others have found to help counteract the hyperpigmentation some get from mino is to also take buffered Vit C daily. Mino seems to have this greater capacity for binding to iron in the blood and is probably why these darkened areas of hyperpigmentation occur (usually in areas of the body with lots of blood vessels close to skin or after getting a bruise). This is one reason why its contraindicated to take any minerals near to the abx dose, as these will bind to tetracyclines in the gut and renders the abx useless. Vit C helps to metabolize iron out of the body.

I have not found any studies to confirm what I am going to write about. It is possible that I am a freak (lots of wonderful stuff created problems for me) but I wonder if it may possibly apply to others, too.

In my case combining Minocycline and mega doses of Vit. C seemed to exacerbate hyper-pigmentation.
I was taking mega doses of Vit.C, 9-12 grams a day for about 4 months. About halfway I started Minocycline which I slowly built up to 200 mg a day. After just 4 weeks of 200 mg a day I developed a black tongue (not trush) and black skin around the nails and pronounced dark spots on the face. Minocycline has a wonderful (for me and my neurological symptoms) effect of binding to iron. Vit. C enhances iron absorption. So logically it would seem that the combination of Minocycline and Vit. C is not a perfect match for hyper-pigmentation? While searching the web I only found the articles promoting the use of vit. C for hyperpigmentation. But when I found that it aided in iron absorption and my body’s reaction was abnormal as far as hyper-pigmentation goes….I switched to doxy and decreased Vit. C intake and the blackened skin is slowly returning to normal. Maybe a genetic factor is involved in my case. My father used to have an abnormally high hemoglobin. My hemoglobin used to be fabulous prior to mold exposure and Lyme. So maybe I’m just a freak! I’m mentioning the possible counter-productive effect just in case it may help someone else experiencing strange reaction.

Warm wishes, Krys

P.S. June, my teeth turned grey in spite of sprinkling H2O2 on my toothpaste during every brushing! But they started turning grey while on doxy. I also developed slight hyper-pigmentation on my legs, the parts exposed to the sun, while on doxy and most people do not develop any of that on doxycycline. So maybe some of us are more prone to develop hyper-pigmentation?

[June3443]

philC, I rinse daily. I started using the peroxide to keep the tartar and coffee stains off my teeth. I know some have said it kills good and bad bacteria in the mouth, but it really keeps the teeth clean. I haven’t had a problem so far..just clean teeth.

Kris, thanks for the information. I asked my pharmacist today about doxycycline hyclate and doxycycline monohydrate. The difference is in what the doxycyline is bound with, I think. There could be a big difference what company makes the drug. After going to the site Maz provided about the Ranbaxy brand of minocycline, I may try to get my next doxy from a US company. The generics might cause some of the problems. I found I can get the Watson brand of minocycline at Walgreens.

I,too, am taking the mino at night and doxy in morning. I am in the sun more than I should be but I hate to give up golf. 🙂

[June3443]

I made the trip to Lufkin to see Dr. K who is an AP doctor. She had me discontinue the minocycline because of the darkening on my ankles and possible liver issues. She prescribed clindamycin 150 mg 2 x day along with the doxycycline 100 mg 2x day. Also, added iodine/potassium iodide supplement and selenium citrate for my sluggish thyroid. After about a week on this combo, I think it is working. She wanted to hit any strep or upper respiratory infection I might still have lurking. My childhood history was a lot of strep and also some long infected root canals.

My biggest concern now is being able to keep the yeast infections at bay as well as C dif(?). I am doing the probiotics. Any suggestions? My pharmacist recommended Pharmacist’s Ultimate Health with Lactobacillus 750 m and bifidobacterieum group. I also take the recommended dose on the box of baking soda to help maintain a less acid stomach.

I am noticing spots on my face that looks like the fat is disappearing and it leaves a scar like indention. They are not deep but I notice them. Anyone else have this? The scar looks like an old ringworm scar I have from childhood. I am putting metronidazole gel .75 percent on my face that my dermatologist gave me for rosacea. Dr. K said the small white pokka dot look I have on my arms may be a fungus Tinea Versicolor and prescribed Lamisil. Does anyone else have this condition? I know I have gotten away from the topic but really got to wondering if taking the abx could contribute to the issues instead of the disease.

[Krys]

@Krys wrote:

In my case combining Minocycline and mega doses of Vit. C seemed to exacerbate hyper-pigmentation.
I was taking mega doses of Vit.C, 9-12 grams a day for about 4 months. …Minocycline ..200 mg a day. …I developed a black tongue (not trush) and black skin around the nails and pronounced dark spots on the face. Minocycline has a wonderful (for me and my neurological symptoms) effect of binding to iron. Vit. C enhances iron absorption. So logically it would seem that the combination of Minocycline and Vit. C is not a perfect match for hyper-pigmentation?

An APOLOGY and a correction:
My interpretation of the effect of Minocycline combined with high dose of vit. C on hyperpigmentation was wrong.
My black tongue was due to severe circulation problem. It was not due to accumulation of iron in the tongue tissue at all.
It just coincided with my increase of Minocycline.
Also vitamin C (as ascorbic acid) had nothing to do with it.
I was accidentally taking buffered C instead of plain ascorbic acid. (I used a smaller container to which I poured out of the original one and had it marked only as Vit. C, instead of “Buffered C”) Calcium content in Buffered vit. C (calcium constricts the veins) exacerbated the heart / circulation problems and hence contributed to the black tongue. But it was calcium that contributed, not ascorbic acid.

I had already known that calcium in Buffered C had bad effect on my circulation. Due to my error (wrong marking of the container), I still ended up using the buffered C instead of plain ascorbic acid and then connected the dots wrong….as in: blackened cuticles and black tongue having the same cause.

Once I helped my circulation and made sure that I was taking pure ascorbic acid (not the buffered one) everything started turning around. The cuticles (only the thin skin that remains after the thickened one was scraped off) are still black. But that is hyperpigmentation, not circulation problem.

I’m deeply sorry if my wrong conclusions have scared anyone combining Minocycline with mega doses of Vitamin C.
Warm wishes, Krys

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