Home Forums General Discussion We are declared Immunodefficient – NOT AUTOIMMUNE !!!

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  • #310733
    klogan
    Participant

    Oh dear, is that me you're hollering at for not reading the links?

    Sorry, didn't mean to waste anyone's time.

     

    #310734
    DragonSlayer
    Participant

    Hi, roserdRA:

    We have an  immunodeficiency to fight – not an Autoimmunity!!!!

    I looked at the links you provided, and do not yet understand how having an immunodeficiency eliminates the autoimmunity label. 

    In my orientation we have BOTH.  The immune system is not some monolithic block that either functions normally or not, but some parts work great and others not so well.  The parts that do not work so well allowed us 1) to get colonized by whatever bacterium (-a) and 2) not so easily get rid of the pathogens.  The parts that do work well react (not “over” react) to the presence of these pathogens, causing the 'autoimmune' response.

    We have plenty of trouble with semantics already.

    For You, and everyone interested, I can email (approx 1Mb each–just over 10 items) the technical papers on RA published by Professor Ebringer, et al.  These help to explain the molecular mimicry mechanism involved in both RA and AS, and may constitute a new approach to treatments that include AP and dietary suggestions.

    Best to You,
    John

    #310735
    roserdRA
    Participant

    To me the difference of Autoimmune and Immunodeficiencey is:

    Autoimmune-Immune system doesn't know what it is doing (Which is absurd to me)

    Immunodefficient- Immune system fights correct but can't out-smart pathogen as they are ever evolving as well. (Is anyone suppressing the Immune system of HIV infected people any further?- as is the case with RA for example?)

    That's the point I like to bring across! 

    #310736
    roserdRA
    Participant

    Maybe this is a better way to explain what I mean.

    In the case of Visceral Leishmaniasis ( an intracellular protozoan infection) which shows  a positive RF-IgM and a positive Anti-CCP (the same antibodies as in a lot of RA people), yet because it is known that there is actually an infection, no one tries to suppress the immune system. This bug is capable to make the persons immune system produce more of Th2 cells (T-helper-cells of the immune system) which promote Antibody production, which again is useless because once within the cell- Antibodies can't get to this pathogen.

    People which from the beginning of this pathogen invading their body produce more Th1 cells ( these promote more the cell protection pathways- rather then Antibody production) can often beat this infection even without any help of medication.

    So what if something is within our cells- promoting Antibody production… and we know that RA is more severe if it has these antibodies and also if they are there in high titers……If I would suppress it with MTX for instance…… of course it would help.

    But it would not eliminate the pathogen. Maybe suppressing one pathway of our immune system activates more the other and that's how the disease can be hold in check (not eliminated).

    Some people just don't produce more of these Th1 period…. they never really reach remission.

    It will always come back without the meds. Isn't that very often happening? And sometimes it returns even worse?

    In this case I would call – not being able to produce enough Th1 – Immunodefficient and not autoimmune!

    Boy, in retrospect, this sounds just as complicated as my first trying to explain what I mean. LOL

     

Viewing 4 posts - 16 through 19 (of 19 total)

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