Home Forums General Discussion "Vitamin D May Exacerbate Autoimmune Disease"

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  • #370551
    A Friend
    Participant

    Hello Friends,

    For those of you who have followed my experiences beginning the first two months of 2013 and still ongoing, relating to high-dose Vitamin D3, the IBS onset within several days, and then problems found on x-ray of a molar, which I elected to have removed the last day of 2013 (instead of considering a root canal or implant, as suggested by the dentist).

    I’ve just found this research in the link pasted above it below …. which profoundly spoke to me as I first read it. Could this possibly be “the” relationship of my beginning chronic illness back in early 1990’s — with a history before that of having embedded wisdom teeth removed?– could this have been damaging to the jaw bone and set up more problems? And continuing to the present? And remember chronic illness began with what was thought to be TMJ? If I were a gambler, I might put a few chips on this one!
    AF

    EDIT: An additional link has been added from this same dental site re Parkinson’s and other systemic diseases. Plus a clarification…
    Please note below that the link and excerpts are from the site. (Because the quoted material is so similar to my own recent experience, I didn’t want anyone to be confused and think the text was my own case.)

    I am pasting an additional link from the site, about Parkinsons and other systemic conditions discussed.

    http://www.dreddyclinic.com/jawbone_cavitations.htm

    Excerpt from this link just above:
    Dr. Eddy Clinic
    Jawbone Cavitations: Infarction, Infection & Systemic Disease
    About seven years ago I made the eye-opening discovery that my chronic health problems, which had eluded resolution for many years, had their origin in

    #370552
    Jan Lucinda1
    Participant

    I’m interested in information about vitamin D and RA.

    #370563
    A Friend
    Participant

    @Jan Lucinda1 wrote:

    I’m interested in information about vitamin D and RA.

    Hi Jan,
    About your being interested in information about Vitamin D and RA, there’s a wide range of information about both of these. A few questions to begin our dialogue:

    1) Are you referring to high dose Vitamin D3 supplements? Or, to Vitamin D that we get from sunshine and from foods high in Vitamin D?

    2) I’m assuming you have a diagnosis of RA. I’m also wondering if in the past you have had any root canals, tooth implants, or had wisdom teeth extracted, if you have many fillings, and if your oral health seems otherwise good? I’ve learned over the past several months that a very large percent of people with chronic illnesses, such as RA and other rheumatic diagnoses (and rosacia sp?, ALS, Parkinson’s, etc.) can be related to dental problems, and that high dose Vitamin D3 can trigger reactions linked in some way to “hidden infections” in our bodies.

    Best,
    AF

    #370564
    prioris
    Participant

    dental infections can be the route for many afflictions of the body. this is why medicaid and medicaid don’t cover dental. dental is very expensive when coming out of ones pocket and making minimum wage, ssi or unemployed. curing people is not on their agenda. if you listen to any supposed health care debate – there is a cone of silence about dental coverage and few if any talk about it.

    some people have taken care of their teeth through most of their life in different ways but due to a bad financial situation, they weren’t able to get things fixed and then a big change reaction occurred and they lost all their teeth. very sad.

    if one puts in a bridge or cap, they will eventually need to be replaced. it is costly. worst thing i had done was have them put on a bridge. they grinded down two good teeth to do it. i wasn’t familiar with bridges and was focused on mercury removal. i would just use single caps at most and leave the spaces. every little piece of hardware they put in your mouth just creates a future cost. it won’t be pretty if your poor.

    just a little thing like swishing some hydrogen peroxide in your mouth before bed may hold the line against dental problems. a while back i had sensitive teeth. i help HP in my mouth for 30 minutes a day until it was gone. I did the same with baking soda to get rid of gum problems when i was younger. given the economic situation these days, one needs to be proactive about caring for dental stuff.

    #370561
    Jan Lucinda1
    Participant

    A Friend-

    Yes, I’m talking about supplements. My GP said my Vitamin D from lab results is low and she wants me to take supplements. After reading about your negative reaction and those of others, I’m wondering if this would be beneficial. No recent dental problems here. As my sig line says, I have RA. I guess I could try a low dose and see if I have any negative reaction.

    #370562
    A Friend
    Participant

    @Jan Lucinda1 wrote:

    A Friend-

    Yes, I’m talking about supplements. My GP said my Vitamin D from lab results is low and she wants me to take supplements. After reading about your negative reaction and those of others, I’m wondering if this would be beneficial. No recent dental problems here. As my sig line says, I have RA. I guess I could try a low dose and see if I have any negative reaction.

    Jan, dental problems don’t have to be “recent” to be big problems for a number of people. Many dentals problems are rather walled off where toxins sort of have a “kingdom” all their own and have access to our blood supply, I understand. If you don’t mind my asking… or sharing with me… what dental problems have you had in the past, if any? Any extractions of wisdom teeth, root canals, mercury amalgam fillings … implants of any kind?

    Knowing what I know now, I would never again take high dose Vit D3, because our body cannot regulate an overdose of D supplements once taken. In posts on this subject to RBF BB, 20-30 minutes of sunshine three days a week, plus Vitamin D from foods high in Vit D, and the body can determine its needs and make the amount of Vit D it needs from the sun on our skin and the diet … if we live where there is enough sun. I also believe my body would have tolerated D-3 800 to 1,000… but the 5,000 was more than my body apparently could tolerate, and the IBS symphony began and caused much havoc in my life since then. I had known for several years that my D tests were low, and I ate the recommended types of fish about three times a week, and other foods recommended. Looking back, I’ve guessed my body was using up the Vit D from these, which may have kept it low.

    I was feeling really well when this all began, and had just had my annual checkup with blood draw and labs. The 25 OH D test was the only thing on it that wasn’t in the “really good” category. My own reaction to being on high dose Vit D3 began after being on it for only a few days. From this dilemma, because it was so debilitating, I had to figure out what was going on, and thankfully it was figured out.

    Best,
    AF

    #370560
    prioris
    Participant

    a few points …

    Extraordinary high dosage of D3 can lead to bad things like anything else.

    Vitamin D3 requires vitamin K2, vitamin A and a little calcium to be able to function.
    If one is deficient in K2, I could see how negative things happen with just D3 alone.

    In the end, one needs to experiment.

    #370553
    A Friend
    Participant

    @prioris wrote:

    a few points …

    Extraordinary high dosage of D3 can lead to bad things like anything else.

    Vitamin D3 requires vitamin K2, vitamin A and a little calcium to be able to function.
    If one is deficient in K2, I could see how negative things happen with just D3 alone.

    In the end, one needs to experiment.

    Prioris… have used K2 for quite a long time… having learned that it is needed along with magnesium and calcium. And having read that K2 helps with magnesium getting the calcium in and then out of the arteries, so the calcium does not harden/calcify there. Thanks for your insight/wisdom.
    AF

    #370554
    Jan Lucinda1
    Participant

    A Friend-

    I just looked at the paper you quoted ” Vitamin D May Exacerbate Autoimmune Disease”. Do you interpret this as saying it is best not to take it? I may send this to my doctor.

    Jan

    #370555
    A Friend
    Participant

    @Jan Lucinda1 wrote:

    A Friend-

    I just looked at the paper you quoted ” Vitamin D May Exacerbate Autoimmune Disease”. Do you interpret this as saying it is best not to take it? I may send this to my doctor.

    Jan

    Jan,

    A lot has happened since I posted that thread. I need to go back and take a look at it.

    There is a vast “army” of doctors and other medical practitioners who seem convinced that everyone needs to be on high-dose Vitamin D3 supplements. With my own terrible reaction after taking it for only about a week before severe reactions began, I’d be very leary if I were a patient just making this decision. (I’d read enough of the posts and concerns by Dr. Marshall to be leary and not take the supplement for several years… until January 2013 (both Dr. K and my local PCP had encouraged me for two or three years to take it). Just in the misc. searchings I’ve done on this, I have found several others who had the kind of reaction I had, but the culprits were various “hidden, walled-off infections.”

    I respected Dr. Marshall for his stance against patients taking it. I spent a good bit of time reading on Dr. Marshall’s site a few years ago. I believe he must have known about some experiences similar to what happened in my case — and he could only express his cautions about patients with diagnoses such as ours. Our body can regulate making Vitamin D in our body if we get 20 to 30 minutes of sun on our bodies a week, and consume foods high in Vitamin D. Our body is able to make what it needs and then stop making it. (I very diligently for years had purchased from the health store and consumed salmon, tuna, and lightly smoked sardines… all good sources of D, but I knew I was not getting enough sun, but have now been making an effort to get the recommended amount.) When we take high-dose Vitamin D from supplements, the body’s mechanism for making Vit D3 cannot turn off the high-dose Vit D from the supplements and the amount can be large enough to be toxic — and create the terrible itching such as I had about day 5, all over my upper back… and then the year-long-plus IBS began.

    Even though my 25 OH(d) levels were low, it is possible that the recently found 4 cavitations where wisdom teeth were removed many years ago could be the contributing factor to my body’s using up my Vitamin D consumed as food and from the sun. BUT, the good news was that in January 2013 when all this happened, my annual labs were outstanding… except for the 25 OH(D) level. So, in spite of the low D, the supplement program I was on, seemed to be working pretty well until I overloaded my body with the high dose Vit D-3.

    The holistic dentist I saw for an evaluation of several areas of my mouth and teeth (using a cavitat for visualizing cavitations, and other measuring devices for heavy metals, etc.) told me all four of the wisdom teeth extraction sites had infections the size of acorns. [So much for that TMJ diagnosis that launched my chronic illness about 1990, and has continued since that time.] I’m not a scientist, but I have certainly studied the work of such as they for many hours a day for many years! I developed a passion for learning about all of our chronic illness problems. And this is going to sound unkind… (so be it!!!). I believe if the medical community was as interested in all of us getting well as we are, many of these serious problems we wrestle with, could have been solved years ago!!! With just my liberal arts background, I’ve been able to stop and reverse a few serious things.. by just reading/searching information provided by some of the wonderful giants who were/are sharing information with us.

    Jan, I never want the responsibility for decisions of others. But if I can help you look for anything in particular, I’d be happy to help you look… or share what I’ve saved in files.

    Best to you,
    AF

    AF

    #370556
    A Friend
    Participant

    @Jan Lucinda1 wrote:

    A Friend-

    I just looked at the paper you quoted ” Vitamin D May Exacerbate Autoimmune Disease”. Do you interpret this as saying it is best not to take it? I may send this to my doctor.

    Jan

    Jan,
    From my own experience, it was easy to decide that I should not have taken it. Ironically, that was my feeling long before I took it. Guess I’m psychic and dumb! From January 2013 to January 2014, I went from early cataracts to a need for two cataract surgeries several weeks apart.

    And, after finally finding a few links about the “down side” of taking high dose Vitamin D-3, that made me know there apparently were/are others with bad experiences.

    And then… I began finding the numerous cases of longterm dental case problems that we never hear about from regular dentists. But the holistic dentists, who are specially trained/schooled and have sophisticated equipment for detecting these problems, are the ones who seem to be able to tend to these problems. I even learned that some patients have developed ALS symptoms and Parkinson’s symptoms, and learned these symptoms can be evoked from cavitations, etc.

    If you or your doctor need some links on these, I will share them privately with you.

    When I decided to make the appointment with a holistic dentist, first and foremost I wanted to know what in the world was in my mouth or elsewhere that could have caused this kind of reaction. It’s not a guess on the practitioner’s part when we get a diagnosis. Their equipment is designed to visualize and to measure things we need to know.

    AF

    #370557
    prioris
    Participant

    “When cataracts form, levels of calcium and sodium in the lens increase, and levels of potassium, vitamin C, and protein decrease. “

    This could be calcification problem.
    The problem may be that vitamin D needs a complement of nutrients to work.
    This may suggest a lack of vitamin K etc.

    As far as cataracts, there are possible natural remedies for that also

    N-acetyl carnosine (NAC eye drops)
    castor oil

    #370558
    A Friend
    Participant

    @prioris wrote:

    “When cataracts form, levels of calcium and sodium in the lens increase, and levels of potassium, vitamin C, and protein decrease. “

    This could be calcification problem.
    The problem may be that vitamin D needs a complement of nutrients to work.
    This may suggest a lack of vitamin K etc.

    As far as cataracts, there are possible natural remedies for that also

    N-acetyl carnosine (NAC eye drops)
    castor oil

    prioris,

    EDIT: Am adding this Cataract link as I review what has been written below. Am thinking adding this Cataract information from LPI Institute might be helpful to others — especially if anyone like myself has had a longterm reaction to taking high dose Vitamin D3… this is an example of only one of the things that happened to me over the course of “one year plus” after taking high dose D-3 for only about a week:
    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/
    Cataracts

    I had been including K-2 for a very long time, also NAC. But to coin a phrase: it’s not what we “take”; it’s what we “absorb.” My absorption has been “nil” for a very long time, and it shows in the weight loss/bony body. My problem was that all of my food, supplements, everything was going right through me, many times a day for over a year. If you’ve been around for a while, you may have read that I had sudden onset IBS that lasted well over a year, and has just gotten back closer to normal the last month… but still some days is a problem. With the cavitations having just been addressed, I’m assuming this is probably the reason for some signs of improvement.

    Thanks for your suggestions. I am very interested in everything you mentioned, and especially the NAC eye drops. Which source of NAC eyedrops would you get for yourself?

    One other thing I’d like to share with you — you seem very knowledgeable already — is that I had had an apparent, noticeable B-2/Riboflavin deficiency for a long time. I wasn’t knowledgeable of the clues to this until it happened to me. I began having heart/chest pain two or three years ago. Angina had to be ruled out, and was. The best cardiologist I could have had lives in the town where I live. He ruled out angina, but found my body was making 1/2 of the Co-Q10 needed. I was taking 100 Ubiqinol already, and he had me double it. I still had the dryest lips and they even looked chapped all the time. Through researching, I learned that was also a B-2/Riboflavin deficiency.

    I was taking many B Vitamins and eating a really good diet. Just like my low Vitamin 25 OH(d) level [and I was eating lots of good food, fish, etc.]. So, I started supplementing with B-100 twice daily. Well, I can’t say which came first: “The chicken or the egg,” but with discovering and recently addressing the longterm dental cavitations, and with the higher dose B-100 Vitamins twice daily, just recently (for probably less than a month), my lips are no longer dry and peeling.

    If my life depended upon the right guess right now, I’d guess that with the longterm cavitations/infections, and my not getting any younger, these numerous conditions were using up all my body’s nutrients. Time will tell. Hopefully, there are a few more miles left in this body … for I surely want to be around to see if the dental surgery, etc. will make a positive difference. The lips are a nice start. I didn’t like those dry lips at all!

    Good night all… let’s all be well!
    AF

    #370559
    prioris
    Participant

    holistic dentists are so hard to find, i would have to travel to other side of the state if i used one. the other problem is that they are limited in their holistic practice. the few i’d want to go to are are probably in california so a long ways away. plus they can be so much more expensive like 2 to 3 times the regular price. luckily i don’t need much done so not a problem.

    i always keep antibiotic amoxicillin on hand so i can try to self treat the problems myself. i experimented with treating a deep infected tooth and was not successful. i was able to treat an infected tooth in top gum.

    you said … it’s not what we “take”; it’s what we “absorb.”

    I completely agree. That has always been my thinking for decades.

    This is why it can be difficult in finding remedies for people. It could be that one needs to resolve one problem before one can resolve another problem. There may be damaged to intestinal villus or something less well known intestinal things. I haven’t wrapped my brain around that area yet. first thing one needs to know is what does actually get damaged. since one may have no way of actually knowing then one needs to experiment.

    As far as the cataract remedies, they are applied to the eye surface so digestive tract not involved

    The cheapest route for the carnosine drops is buy the bulk powder which cost $40 and make your own. There is enough to last many years. The recipe is based on 1 ml = 1 g. They therapeutic dosage is 1% solution. Maybe use colloidal silver instead of distilled water. Maybe even increase strength. Too many chronically ill people are struggling financially so they need as many homemade solutions as possible.

    On the other end of spectrum is just buy a well known brand name one. Look in amazon for reviews. This will remove any doubt.

    Someone has said that if you can put the carnosine drops on every 2-3 hours a day, it dissipates the cataracts faster. That makes sense. This may be inconvenient but for those that don’t want to wait all those months, this may be the way to go. So maybe use a brand name and home made solution to get the best of both worlds.

    I would try the castor oil one first. You put a drop or two in your eye before bed and roll your eye around. it doesn’t sting or nothing. you don’t feel anything except a greasy eyeball. The oil is suppose to dissolve the cataract. It has worked in quite a few people but not in all. It’s more convenient. Maybe put it on twice a day.

    Maybe experiment more and combine solutions.

    i will create a separate post for the heart pain question

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