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i was told by Dr S in Iowa that probiotic is not really needed in his experience unless you show sign of an infection such as Trush on tongue. However, others say it is critical. I am doing 100MG x2 7days a week of Minocycline and he felt that not needed with this dosage.
Please chime in and advise if needed at this point and if so is their a brand you would recommend and can I take one that does not need to be refrigerated?
@MINOCINMAN wrote:
i was told by Dr S in Iowa that probiotic is not really needed in his experience unless you show sign of an infection such as Trush on tongue. However, others say it is critical. I am doing 100MG x2 7days a week of Minocycline and he felt that not needed with this dosage.
Please chime in and advise if needed at this point and if so is their a brand you would recommend and can I take one that does not need to be refrigerated?
I respectfully disagree. 😯 The dose you referred to above gave me a raging case of systemic yeast right down to the black hairy tongue. 😥 Even then I was on a probiotic, only what was recommended on the label and clearly not enough. It took a drug washout and a course of Diflucan to kill the yeast to get back on track. Back on track meant being diligent with the probiotics (different brands and at much higher doses).
Take care…..kim
Hi—That is about the highest dose of minocin that is used- 1400 mg a week —it is far easier to prevent fun gal infections than treat them —I would say a probiotic is very necessary to hopefully ward off fungal infections —the brand that I use and have always used is PB8 –about 11.50 for 120 capsules at vitacost.com
thats the best price around –In 11 years of taking 200 mg daily of minocin never a fungal problem –most likely due to the probiotic —
richieI’ve had RA for 12 years, but the strongest drugs I’ve been on were Celebrex and sulfasalazine. For the past couple of years I haven’t had to take either of them. I was started on Minocin by a new-to-me doctor of functional medicine Sept 1. He said NOTHING about probiotics. I took 1400 mg Minocin for a couple of weeks, then lowered it to 100 mg 3 x week. By Nov 15, the diarrhea started. Now he has me taking Herbalife Florafiber 6 per day for a total of 54 mg acidophilus per day. He has mentioned nothing about Diflucan. He is also not in favor of me taking NSAIDS (and most days I don’t need my Naprosyn, prescribed by a different doctor). Please give me advice. The diarrhea is getting worse! Thanks!
@wandalong wrote:
I’ve had RA for 12 years, but the strongest drugs I’ve been on were Celebrex and sulfasalazine. For the past couple of years I haven’t had to take either of them. I was started on Minocin by a new-to-me doctor of functional medicine Sept 1. He said NOTHING about probiotics. I took 1400 mg Minocin for a couple of weeks, then lowered it to 100 mg 3 x week. By Nov 15, the diarrhea started. Now he has me taking Herbalife Florafiber 6 per day for a total of 54 mg acidophilus per day. He has mentioned nothing about Diflucan. He is also not in favor of me taking NSAIDS (and most days I don’t need my Naprosyn, prescribed by a different doctor). Please give me advice. The diarrhea is getting worse! Thanks!
Wandalong, it’s nice to meet you and welcome to the RBF forum! 🙂
Sadly, what you’re going through is a prime example of why probiotics are absolutely necessary to begin when antibiotic therapy is initiated and thereafter. Antibiotics disturb gut microbiota – both good and bad bacteria – so probiotics need to be taken a couple hours after an antibiotic dose to replace the good fauna – taken too close to the antibiotic and the probiotic gets destroyed, too. This is probably true for anyone on any DMARD, as well, including sulphasalazine or methotrexate, which also disturb gut-microbiota.
It could be that your probiotic dose is too little or that a different probiotic would be better for you. I’ve been on heavy abx protocols for 4 years for Lyme and have used PB8 vegetarian capsules (8 to 10 caps a day) successfully and have never had a bout of diarrhea in all that time. I just adjust my dose if I notice things getting a little ‘looser’ and all is well.
We’ve had some discussions recently on probiotics and some great points were brought up, including why it might be a good idea to rotate probiotics or to use 2 or 3 different brands consecutively to ensure full coverage of different beneficial strains. None of this is an exact science yet, so what may work for one person may not work for another and everyone seems to have their own preferred – tried and true – brands.
Some AP docs are now using combination protocols that include pulses of flagyl or tinidazole, which in addition to their anti-microbial props, can help avert/treat c. difficile. However, it’s even more important to be fastidious about probiotic intake while on this type of anti-parasitic, because an overgrowth of candida in the gut can occur (which is when a systemic, like Diflucan, would be needed).
A lot of this is a balancing act….but it is far safer to always take a daily probiotic while on antibiotic therapy to avert gut issues than to treat once they’ve begun.
Hope you get your gut issues sorted soon, Wandalong.
hey minocinman, I’m no expert on this but i recently found some good info on probiotics and have posted in the general discussion the title is proper probiotics are criticle. inside you will find an article i found to be a little confusing but very informative. hope it helps
Did Dr. Brown ever mention probiotics, even in a natural form? I don’t recall that he did. Did he ever talk about raging yeast infections? Again I don’t recall that he did.
Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to understand. This might be why he ended up with a low and slow pulsed approach?
Todd
@Todd WI wrote:
Did Dr. Brown ever mention probiotics, even in a natural form? I don’t recall that he did. Did he ever talk about raging yeast infections? Again I don’t recall that he did.
Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to understand. This might be why he ended up with a low and slow pulsed approach?
Todd
No worries, Todd! 😉 I questioned the same thing…nope, he never mentioned taking probiotics in his original book, The Road Back. I can only presume to think that not much was known about probiotics in his day and the “old school” AP docs are probably in the same boat. Dr. S. also says diet is not important, but it is of great import for some folk here.
Brown also didn’t know a great deal about Lyme, though he included a chapter in his book. No one really knew a great deal about it in those days, as Willy Burgdorfer had just identified it in the early 80s. However, he did start out his chapter on this subject saying:
@wandalong wrote:
I’ve had RA for 12 years, but the strongest drugs I’ve been on were Celebrex and sulfasalazine. For the past couple of years I haven’t had to take either of them. I was started on Minocin by a new-to-me doctor of functional medicine Sept 1. He said NOTHING about probiotics. I took 1400 mg Minocin for a couple of weeks, then lowered it to 100 mg 3 x week. By Nov 15, the diarrhea started. Now he has me taking Herbalife Florafiber 6 per day for a total of 54 mg acidophilus per day. He has mentioned nothing about Diflucan. He is also not in favor of me taking NSAIDS (and most days I don’t need my Naprosyn, prescribed by a different doctor). Please give me advice. The diarrhea is getting worse! Thanks!
Hi wandalong,
Your post caught my attention b/c of the worsening diarrhea aspect. My Integrative Medicine doctor stressed that Saccharomyces boulardii is REALLY IMPORTANT to take when on a long-term abx treatment. This friendly fungus, he said, helps to prevent the terrible diarrhea that is caused by the over-growth of c. difficile. c. diff. is a potentially very harmful bacteria that is always present in the gut, but is kept in check by the other, so-called, friendly bacteria (the pro-biotics). Taking abx kills off all bacteria, including the friendly ones, and it throws off the good/bad bacteria balance, thus potentially allowing c. difficile to flourish. This is what results in the terrible diarrhea!!! My doc said that taking Saccharomyces boulardii, about 400-500 mgs a day, can keep the diarrhea away. It can also help fight off a full-blown c. diff. infection, and then get the gut flora back into shape after one. I actually think that it is a crying shame that more docs haven’t been using/don’t use Saccharomyces boulardii to help prevent and treat the multiple cases of c. diff. infections that have been rampaging through hospitals and senior’s homes in my neck of the woods. 🙄 Too many sick and elderly ppl have suffered and died needlessly, but pro-biotics and friendly gut flora in general are not really paid attention to by mainstream medicine, so ppl continue to suffer. 😳
If you’re interested, I get my Saccharomyces boulardii on-line from Swanson’s – it’s really cheap there. I’ve tried to get it in stores but it is crazy expensive off the shelves. Ordering it on-line is way better for me and as Saccharomyces boulardii doesn’t need to be refrigerated (unlike most pro-biotics), I don’t have to worry about getting it shipped.
This is just my fellow-patient input, but I hope this helps in some way!
Take care and be well,
NikiETA this link: http://www.mdheal.org/leakygut.htm. Point #2, half way down the page under Trophic treatments, you’ll see Saccharomyces boulardii mentioned.
Hi Niki!
I just ordered the Swanson’s Saccharomyces boulardii probiotics…
So far I’m quite fine with Dr. Mercola’s PB I use (with 66 billion viable bacteria) but it doesn’t have Saccharomyces boulardii althouth it contains 10 differrent strains with fructooligosaccharides. So, this is just another proof that alternating is necessary as one would think Mercola’s are the best (or at least I do/did) but now I know that it’s not necessarily so or none can be considered “perfect”.
A general Q to all: when alternating, do you mean day to day or bottle to bottle? I will add Saccharomyces boulardii to my daily probiotics regardless of what brand I take, but I was thinking of alternating Mercola’s with a totally differrent brand… Probably I should go for PB8 as long as it’s highly recommended here (thanks Richie!). ANy other suggestions?
Dr S told me also not only not to take probiotics but no other supplements at all and when he realised I was keen to take them he said not more than 2 supplements (I still take 12-15 😉 ) With all my due respect I realise he is an old school and probably more interested to see how minocin alone will do the job of healing me from SD as he mentioned to me that supplements might mask the effects of abx (I realise also he wants to know what exactly helps me) but I believe we are more interested in helping our bodies to heal faster by taking all the supplements…
Just wanted to say something about treating rheumatic conditions with penicillin alone… In my case it worked to a certain extent as my rheumatic fever as well as fleeting arthritis were totally cured without any trace by penicillin/bicilin combination used over short courses over 2 years… That probably stopped the development of SD although did not put me into remission. To add,along with penicillin, I was also given shots of vits A, B, C 3 times daily! Painful but worked! This was almost 30 years ago but still in the former USSR countroes doctors believe and use vitamins a lot and there is a strong belief that diet hugely affects our wellbeing as well as the course of decease…
Hi,
Just got my saccharomyces boulardii (SB) from Swanson’s, to add to my Mercola’s probiotics. On the bottle it says to take with water between meals but isn’t the general advice to take probiotics right after meals? How are you guys taking your probiotics?
Also, the bottle shows 5 billion viable organisms per capsule and 200 mg Bio-Mos FG. I saw NikiG’s post recommends 400-500 mg per day – do I take this means 2 caps of the Swanson’s then (what’s bio-mos FG???) 😕
And, do I take these (SB) regardless if I have diarrhea or not?
Thanks!
My doc’s PA told me to take the saccharomyes probotics. I read the inside pamphlet and it said not to take if you have an intravenous port, which I do for my Rocephin.
So I did not start them as it said I could develop a fungal infection.
Anybody dealt with this and any other solution? So far, yeast has been an on and off problem. It is not fun when it flares up and is a beast to treat. Sometimes it seems my Metagenics ultra flora plus DF doesn’t seem enough. Maybe I just need to take more.
Barb
It seems there was some confusion about S Boulardii in the past. McFarland: Systematic review and meta-analysis of Saccharomyces boulardii in adult patients; World J Gastroenterol. 2010 May 14; 16(18): 2202
Hi to all,
And how about fermented foods, the source of robust good digestive tract bacteria, that is less likely to be killed off with the next antibiotic pill taken? Awesome source of vitamins and minerals, too. Just start taking a smaller amount with some digestive enzymes in the beginning, until you build up stronger digestive tract.
And how about making your own yogurt ? 1 cup of home made yogurt, made properly for 24 hours in a steady temp. of around 100F contains about 600 billion good bacteria.
Sorry for busting in like that, but nobody ever posts about those, and they ARE an excellent source of probiotics, very high on vit.C content (fermented veggies ARE) and loads of minerals.
I’ve always enjoyed them once in a while and lately I developed systemic yeast, in spite of taking about a 100 billion good bacteria and few times a week a raw goat’s yogurt. So I upped the yogurt to a bigger dose daily, still take about 100 billion combined probiotics and am taking a small amount of fermented cabbage daily and I think the yeast is gone. No thrush on tongue. And the fermented veggies are just excellent in neutralizing the horrible taste of your own saliva when you take Flagyl. Fooy!!!
I can’t post any links: like smilies, they just stopped working for me, and no profile adjustment adjusts that aspect.posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=5384#
Many warm wishes, KrysDid Dr. Brown ever mention probiotics, even in a natural form? I don’t recall that he did. Did he ever talk about raging yeast infections? Again I don’t recall that he did.
Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to understand. This might be why he ended up with a low and slow pulsed approach?
Todd, as Maz has said, no he didnt. Alot of things have changed in more recent years in our understanding of gut health. Also, from my personal experience, the low and slow protocol of 100mg mino 3 days a week tends not to create so much of a problem in terms of yeast infection. I was on the MWF regime for 4 years with no yeast issues. HOWEVER, since I have discovered a pathogen load much bigger than I was initially treating and am on combination abx, I am definitely on probiotics. And, with what I now have learned about gut health, I would be on a good probiotic as a preventive even if I was still on the MWF mono regime. As Richie has said, much easier to prevent than treat. Lynnie
Be well! Lynnie
Palindromic RA 30 yrs (Chronic Lyme?)
Mino 2003-2008 100mg MWF - can no longer tolerate any tetracyclines
rotating abx protocol now. From Sep 2018 MWF - a.m. Augmentin Duo 440mg + 150mg Biaxsig (roxithromycin). p.m. Cefaclor (375mg) + Klacid 125mg + LDN 3mg + Annual Clindy IV's
Diet: no gluten, dairy, sulphites, low salicylates
Supps: 600mg N-AC BID, 1000mg Vit C, P5P 40mg, zinc picolinate 60mg, Lithium orotate 20mg, Magnesium Oil, Bio-identical hormones (DHEA + Prog + Estrog)
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