Not all docs are bad…

[linda]

I completely agree that our health care system needs to change, but lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Some people have had very bad reactions to some abx and other supplements that are popular with people on this board, but we don't bash their doctors or treatment choice; we ask them to try a different med or a different schedule or detox method. We do this because we know that there isn't just one protocol that works for everyone. The same principle holds true for pain management or other disease treatments as well. I believe most doctors want their patients to feel better. Getting angry at a doctor for having a bad reaction to a med is kind of like shooting the messenger- they can't control the side effects, only warn us of them. WE are the ones who go to them for help, they try to accomadate us as best they can with the knowledge they have. It would be extremely bad business to arrogantly rx a med that you think would be harmful to the patient; not a whole lot of repeat customers.

I also believe that it is somewhat irresponsible to discourage someone from seeking help from any physician or medication based on our own personal experiences or horror stories, especially if there is a possibility of that person benefitting from help in that direction.  I'm all for sharing experiences, good or bad, it's what this board is all about. But it's important to recognize that everyone responds differently to meds, as well as doctors. I feel that our bad experiences should be used as warnings as to what could happen, but not as an absolute condemantion of that treatment or physician. We should also recognize how important a positive attitude is for any therapy. If someone is convinced that a therapy won't work, it probably won't. We need to be informative, but not so negative that whoever we are trying to help misses out on a treatment that may help them.

Having said that, I too have felt the frustration of having an arrogant doc who thinks he/she knows everything. I had a rheumy who let me gain 70 lbs in a year and got me dependent on vicodin, then offered nothing to help me with that except a morphine drip! I RAN to a pain specialist and luckily found one of the best docs I've ever met. He was a very humble man, a common characteristic among “good” docs (the problem is we also want them to be confident, right?). There is another doctor that I recently had to fire because of negligent treatment, that was my AP doc; with him I rec'd the worst health care in my life. Worse than that, I have had to give up on AP for now partly because I can't find a doc close enough to me who will rx abx and contracts with my insurance company, but also because despite repeated requests by me for something to treat my stomach, I could not get him to take the problem seriously-consequently I now have ulcers and can't tolerate oral Abx. Am I PO'd?- oh yeah.  But I have refrained from discouraging others to see him when they ask for an AP doc in this area, because another personality might do well with him. If my opinion of him is specifically asked for, I email that person privately and confine my comments to the specific areas of medical practice that I felt were harmful to me.

I do understand that it is difficult not to get angry when you are already feeling oogey, then you take a pill that makes you feel even worse; been there, done that.  There are good and bad and mediocre people in the field of health care, just like any other profession. If your doc is bad, find another, but let's not condemn the whole profession because of those bad apples. Remember, they get sick too, and you can bet that they want a good doctor taking care of them as much as we do; it's in all of our best interest that we have a good health care system. Despite the bad apples we've all experienced, I do believe that most doctors are doing their best in a broken health care system.

Sorry for the length, linda

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[Cubby]

I went to 10 different specialists in a period of less than 1 year and they all mis-diagnosed me.   Then, fast foward to the right diagnosis but the most arrogant you-know-what who is a Scleroderma specialist.   He refused to give me AP but told me I had a 3% chance of surviving.    I got rid of him too.

Now, I have the most wonderful doctor in the world and I am almost in remission.

 

 

[linda]

I'm glad you hung in there and didn't give up. It's easy to get discouraged, and it does seem like it is more difficult than it should be to find a good doctor. I like your puppy :)!

[DianeWI]

Hi Linda,

I agree that we need to hang in there and find a doctor that can help us.  However in the meantime, it can be a rough road ahead.  I have had experiences with verbally abusive doctors that were horrible to me.  With one, I was there for a complete physical and he started to lecture me.  I got off the table, got dressed in front of him, and walked out without saying a word.  I figured that there was nothing that I could possibly say, that would influence him, but my actions would indeed speak louder then words.  After that..he talked to a friend of mine and told her what I did.  What ever happened to doctor-patient confidentiality?  The whole thing turned into a fiasco.  But my friend told me one thing that I hang on to.  I hurt the guys pride by walking out on him.  He told her that nobody every did that to him before. 

I feel this way..either the doctor believes me or he doesn't.  I'm not wasting my time and money on someone that turns a deaf ear, that comes with his or her own prejudices against auto-immune diesease, especially FMS. 

Having a doctor that listens and believes is to be cherished for sure.  Finding them is the challenge.   When I was younger, I put up and put up and put up.  Now that I'm older, I know their game a lot better too.  I don't need it.  I can usually tell within the first two office visits it its going to work or not. 

My AP doc is special, but he's a ways away.  I was without a family physician for 3 years before finding a new one.  Presently, I see a doc that just graduated from med school and so far listens.  If and when that changes, he will be history.  But so far, so good.

Nobody here needs to take the abuses from their doctors, especially the specialists.  We don't need to be talked down to.  Many of us can't take a lot of drugs.  They should be somewhat understanding of it.  If they are not tolerant of the AP at all, IMO, move on to another.  If you don't, it will only cause more anger, frustration and stress from both sides.  There are doctors that are in the business just for the money and there are doctors that are really trying to help.  The helpful ones are hard to come by.

Diane

 

[Jennhere]

I don't think we should comment so much when posters post about hating docs.  There are tons of experiences here, mulitple conditions, countless pain experiences… people are going to rant and rave about the abuse perpetuated by arrogant, misinformed, callous doctors.  I don't think this requires a disclaimer.  I've met more bad doctors than good doctors.  I don't think this experience is unique.  Jmo.

Jenn

[Maz]

[user=117]Cubby[/user] wrote:

I went to 10 different specialists in a period of less than 1 year and they all mis-diagnosed me.   Then, fast foward to the right diagnosis but the most arrogant you-know-what who is a Scleroderma specialist.   He refused to give me AP but told me I had a 3% chance of surviving.    I got rid of him too.

Now, I have the most wonderful doctor in the world and I am almost in remission.

 

 

Cubby – did you ever get back to that sclero specialist and visibly show him your progress? It not for anything else, would be worth the fun!  :roll-laugh: 

I love your puppy avatar – what a cute little character!!!

Peace, Maz

[Cubby]

MAX:   Someone just asked me last week to write him a letter.   No, I never went back to him, he is a mean and nasty person and I am sure he would come up with some reason “other” reason as to my progress.   Plus, my friend, Carole, died while under his treatment and I jut don't want to see him.

[Maz]

Yea, I don't blame you, Cubby. Why torture yourself further, eh? :headbang:  Still, the idea of sending him a letter with a gorgeous, healthy pic of yourself and copies of all your improved bloodwork along with what treatments you used to get well does sound kind of appealing. I can't help it…I have such a little devil in me sometimes. 😛 I might use this method myself when I'm further along in progress and there can be no denying it.

Peace, Maz

 

[linda]

Hey Maz and everyone,

I concede to everyone who has had a bad experience (probably all of us), that Jenn is right, this is a good place to vent that anger and frustration. My concern is when that anger dissuades someone from trying a therapy that may help them. We want our docs to be open minded about AP even it they don't believe in it, and some of us have successsfully convinced such docs to rx abx for them in spite of their disbelief in them. Should we not give other meds like those used in pain therapy the same benefit of doubt, that they may work for someone else even if they didn't work for us personally? I was really just concerned that Michele would give up on the Lyrica before she tried it, and it has been a good, safe pain med for me and many others with FMS. The precautions given on the side effects experienced were completely valid, but a few were so strongly worded that they may have impacted Michele's response to the drug. Pain management is a tricky thing, and emotions play a big role in it. I was just trying to balance out the field, I apaologize if I offended or myself dissuaded others from venting here, that was not my intent.

As for the docs, I believe that there are circumstances in which we should tread lightly. The AP physician that I fired is a one pony show in this entire state for those of us with certain insurance carriers, including big carriers. If I could have resolved my stomach issues, I would have kept going to him despite my ill feelings because he is my only source of AP therapy here in AZ. He may well be the only source for others as well, and I don't want to jeopardize someone else's chance at AP therapy. If you live in an area where there are plenty of docs who provide AP, I have no problem with venting about your bad docs, but when you find a good one, please share that, too!

I guess the question is what we are willing to put up with in order to get AP. We get many requests for AP docs from people who have to travel hundreds of miles sometimes for the abx, especially in other countries. If that one doctor turns out to be a jerk, what next? Put up with it or go without. As for the doc here, I don't post his name for people in Az looking for an AP doc, but every once in a while we'll get a post from someone who is seeing him and wondering how others are doing with him. I have had conversations with 3 other patients of his who experienced the same problems I did. These people I do email privately with my concerns, but I also tell them that they need to understand that they may not be able to find another doc that will provide AP here.

I hope one day there will be enough AP docs that no one will have to choose between poor quality of care, self care, or no care.  Annnyyway, I have rambled on long enough on this subject. Please know that I respect all of your opinions and understand your anger, I have also felt the same way at times.

linda

[linda]

Cubby,

I'm really sorry about your friend. I did go back to the doctor that gave me the vicodin and misdiagnosed borderline diabetes which led to the 70 lb weight gain. At that appt it was gratifying to see the look on my doc's face when he asked me, in a worn out voice, how much vicodin I needed, and I got to say, “none!”. But he didn't even notice the weight loss of 40 lbs, even tho I had been a patient of his for 4 yrs. I pointed it out to him, but he wasn't impressed. (see my response to Joe M on the Lyrica thread). It wasn't nearly as fun as I thought it would be. An arrogant or burned out doc just isn't going to care enough to give us a satisfactory response.

I hope you continue in gaining back your health, after 10 doctors, you deserve a medal for determination.

linda

[Maz]

[user=11]linda[/user] wrote:

I was just trying to balance out the field, I apaologize if I offended or myself dissuaded others from venting here, that was not my intent.

 

Hi Linda….how very kind of you, but really no offense taken. You put voice to some very valid concerns and explained yourself beautifully. Your sensitivity towards others who may be new to AP and allowing them to make their own judgments about the healthcare they receive is very wise and t'was ever thus that what may be one man's poison, may well be another man's meat. 

As human beings, it's just a given that we're all going to make generalizations based upon our own value judgments and personal experience. It's just human nature, I suppose, so I truly do appreciate your ability to see outside the box of your own experience and to remain sensitive to the need for others to find their own way and experience. Wonderful reminder and thank you for sharing this.

Peace, Maz

 

[linda]

Maz, you are the zen master.   😎 Thanks!

[Phebagirl]

Good day to everybody:

My daughter had her first bad doc experience with my old AP doc.  He had her crying so hard she was hyperventilating.  All this after 3 minutes with a patient he had never met before in his life. 

He said that he  no longer believed in AP protocol, and that she needed to stay on methotrexate. 

I also took my daughter to my RA doc, hoping he would prescribe AP protocol.  Instead he puther on mtx.  She just finished with pleurisy, pneuomonia, and pleural effusion.  The last thing her lungs needed was methotrexate, yet that is what he prescribed. 

I acquired the physicians list from this site a few weeks ago.  There is not a single physician listed that still does AP protocol.  My next step is to take my daughter to a holisitic physician I know and beg that doc to put her on AP protocol. 

What is wrong with these doctors that they will not prescribe medication that is shown to work.  I could shout it to the rooftops.  I am in remission from MCTD for 2 years because of AP protocol.   Yet, nobody listens. 

What is wrong with these docs.  Why do they vacillate so much?  I can go to a doc who talks fine one visit, and sends me out  of the room in tears the next visit. 

There are times when I think I am a lot saner than they are. 

Pheba.

[linda]

Pheba, how close are you to Ida Grove, Iowa? I grew up just outside of Kc, mo, but have never heard of Auxvasse. iI know there aren't many AP docs to choose from in mo, if you can't get to Ida Grove, a good PCP may be your best option, as you said; I was reading Scammells book again last night, and Dr. s stated that a family physician may be your best bet anyway.  Take courage from Cubby, he had to look hard, but he finally found a doc he liked.

I love your avatar, what a beautiful flower!

linda

[Jennhere]

Pheba- are you saying that the list of ap physicians you got from RBF is useless?  😯  That would be kind of serious in my book.  Maybe you should email the rbf staff and let them know.  It's a real downer to get a list that's not helpful.:(  oh, and definitely, this would require the head banging guy…:headbang:…:roll-laugh:

Jenn

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