Is lyme hiding behind my strep? Comments?

[jelretiredmama]

Despite testing negative for lyme through our provincial labs, I did test positive for strep. Have been taking 2 pills twice daily of Penicillin VK (300mg strength) and will finish up the 10 day prescription in a few more days. Will ask my doctor when I should retest my ASO titre.

My question, since I have been reading that lyme hides behind strep, even though I have been doing AP since mid Sept 2012, is it possible now that the pencillin for strep will now possibly reveal lyme?

I go back to see my family doctor next Tuesday about my thyroid (going to try the Armour thyroid or similar) and will take the Igenex test with me just in case I decide to give that a try. Just sometimes feeling overwhelmed with all the appts and different tests.

I welcome comments.

[Maz]

@jelretiredmama wrote:

My question, since I have been reading that lyme hides behind strep, even though I have been doing AP since mid Sept 2012, is it possible now that the pencillin for strep will now possibly reveal lyme?

Hi Jelretiredmama,

Strep certainly seems to be a tricky organism, having the capability of forming biofilm and communicating with its environment through various chemical messengers, known as quorum sensing, as described in some depth in the following article:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC281653/

Brown discussed strep at some length in the Henry Scammell book, if you have a copy. It’s worth reading and re-reading this book, as there are some really good nuggets in there. I must have read it 5 times in my first year. 😆

Penicillins are bacteriocidal abx that kill cell-walled organisms outright by destroying the cell walls of these types of bugs – like strep. The bug that causes Lyme has a cell-walled form, too, called a spirochete, which can be killed by penicillins, but unfortunately, borrelia are also very sneaky organisms and, while some spirochetes may be killed, others are able to morph into dormant cystic balls when under attack or while living in unfavorable conditions very quickly as a means of self-preservation. These Lyme “cysts” have reduced outer surface proteins, which makes it harder for the immune system to detect (and produce an antibody response).

Here is a video showing how Lyme spirochetes morph quickly into cystic forms to protect themselves:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmCa70bAxE

It is the cystic form of Lyme, which is believed to cause persistence, along with the fact that they also live quite happily in biofilms, which make it difficult for abx to break through to them. Biofilms are like the slime on the top of a stagnant pond. There are other forms of the bug, too, including a cell-wall-less spherical form and what are called “blebs” (little out-pouching buds that form on the spirochetes). This is why Lyme doctors tend to use a combination approach to therapy, including something to target the cell-walled, cell-wall deficient and cystic forms of the bug, to target as many forms as possible, as well as something to help break up biofilms.

So, the thing about having just used a penicillin is that – if you do have Lyme – then it may well be that any spirochetes will have been pushed into dormant cysts, which will have these reduced outer surface proteins (antigens). It’s the body’s response to these proteins – antibodies – that are measured in the IGeneX western blot, so right after a round of penicillin, it may not be an optimal time to test. I was able to get tested after starting a tetracycline and a macrolide abx and tested IGeneX-positive on IgG, but I’m not certain of how a penicillin may abrogate these antibody test results. You could try calling IGeneX labs and putting this question to them:

http://www.IGeneX.com

The lab may suggest you wait for a period of time before running the test to provide the best opportunity for a more accurate result? Worth checking, because these labs are quite expensive. 😉

[jelretiredmama]

Hi Maz

Once again, thank you for all the great info. As info, I went ahead and did the lyme test through our provincial lab (hadn’t received the Igenex kit yet at the time) and it came back negative (after approx 4 months on tetracycline). I should have had the strep done before starting but didn’t until last month so was surprised when I tested postiive as I never once in my life had any indication that I might have had strep.

I will study more of your good reads including the books (I have all 3 and think they are great). Testing positive for strep confirms my theory so far about this autoimmune business not being autoimmune at all. I always knew my body has been fighting something these past 11 years.

Good idea about checking with Igenx re when to test given the penicillin twist.

Again, thank you so much!

[jelretiredmama]

Checked with Igenex re the pencillin possibly impacting test results. No problem. They did say that if my doctor was requisitioning the pcr test then I should wait at least 3 weeks after being off antibiotics before drawing the sample.

Thought I would share this in case anybody has a similar question.

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