hip pain/rh arthritis

[Trudi]

FYI: I did not know this: “curcumin can act as an iron chelator in vivo.”
http://m.bloodjournal.org/content/113/2/270?sso-checked=1

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[MMW]

Hello Maz, I wrote a post and lost it. Frustrating!
Your post left me pondering and researching for days. I do use lactoferrin from time to time for all the wonderful benefits. However now that I know more about iron overload, the research is contradictory in it benefits for this particular issue.
First, in lactoferrin’s ability to sequester iron and withhold it from pathogens, where does it eventually dump it? Could it raise one’s iron theoretically? Only a small portion of iron leaves the body each day. So would you get an increase of iron stored in the liver? Don’t know but food for thought.

http://www.aor.ca/faq/q-is-lactoferrin-a-beneficial-supplement-in-hemochromotosis-is-lactoferrin-an-iron-chelator-or-an-immune-modulator/

Then there is the issue of apolactoferrin vs lactoferrin. I’ve used both before I realized my iron overload issues. Life extension lactoferrin claims that APO is better since it does not carry an iron molecule and it thus has the ability to bind much more iron to withhold it from pathogens. Does a person with iron overload want to keep away from all forms except the APO due to less iron being taken in from this version? Does this mean regular lactoferrin contains iron molecules that will only further load your body? These are all pondering questions.

http://www.lef.org/Protocols/Metabolic-Health/Hemochromatosis/Page-09

Ps Trudi, this is a great site confirming your info on the benefits of curcumin as an iron chelation along with a list of others. Thanks for providing that information!
Phytic acid is another good chelation to look at.

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/FULL/Iron_Too_Much_of_a_Good_Thing.shtml

I also tried the xylitol and it is very difficult to digest. There is a lot of info out there on this and why it is not recommended as the best sugar to ingest. I threw mine out shortly after trying it yrs ago. But the fact that it prevents siderophores is very luring to relook at.

Then there is the whole issue of bio films. Another huge topic or can of worms…lol!

Maz you talked about pathogens being kept behind bars. Well here is my theory from my personal experience. Continued in next post….. Not taking chances losing another post while writing it….lol!

[MMW]

This continues my biofilm discussions……see where you lead me Maz? Lol!

My theory involves my huge massive parasitic infections with several different varieties that I discovered last year. Of course, it is a result from iron overload. And I believe some parasites like iron too!
As I mentioned before, last yr I went on a huge intensive program to rid of them all.
Well I theorize most parasites also live in and are connected to bio films. During the past two yrs, I was able to get off a lot of antibiotics that I started taking from 2009 on since I was always getting every infection that came my way. And why? Due to iron overload, I harbored so many parasites that led me to massively be filled with huge amounts of biofilm!!!! So all pathogens were behind bars because of my parasitic infection!!! Thus fewer antiobiotics were needed and I cleared up a lot of yeast.

Well, my last does was a 3 day course in sept. 2014 of extra potent Benda (mebendazole).
Starting in sept, right after I got done with this course, I had to take zithromax. Then every month since I have had to have another round except December which involved 2 rounds. It’s tearing my flora up, I know and this is depressing for me.

Anyway my point, I believe these parasites kept a huge amount of other pathogens “behind the biofilm bars”. So here I am. In December I came down with massive hip pain. Couldn’t walk well. Putting 2 and 2 together …it had to be mycroplasma so went 3 rds of doxy/mino/doxy/zithromax and now Going back to more doxy.

The hip pain migrated to leg pain after taking the doxy. When I stopped and took zithromax, it started migrating again. So I’m going back to doxy and I now suspect that since mycoplasma migrates from joint to joint this had to be what it is. (Although my pain seems vascular more so)

Oh boy Maz, now you got me rambling. I just wanted to verify your point of how overwhelming it can be to let the pathogenic biofilm bars open letting out a flood. I think this is what happened to me! I am sure paying a price!!!
This is all reflection though.
MMW

[Trudi]

Hi Marianne–

The information on phytic acid is like a 2-edged sword: http://www.healthy-eating-politics.com/phytic-acid.html. It reminds me of eating healthy foods like spinach (and many others) which are, however, high in oxalic acid that block calcium absorption but are highly anti-cancerous.

Everything in moderation comes to mind :).

Happy New Year,
Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[Maz]

@MMW wrote:

I do use lactoferrin from time to time for all the wonderful benefits. However now that I know more about iron overload, the research is contradictory in it benefits for this particular issue.
First, in lactoferrin’s ability to sequester iron and withhold it from pathogens, where does it eventually dump it? Could it raise one’s iron theoretically? Only a small portion of iron leaves the body each day. So would you get an increase of iron stored in the liver? Don’t know but food for thought.

Very good food for thought for those with the metabolic disease, hemochromatosis, for sure, Marianne! I was thinking more along the lines of how lactoferrin could benefit those with rheumatic disease, especially those with iron-deficient anemia. You raise a great point about what, in fact, happens to the iron that is picked up by lactoferrin and upon doing a quick search (reliability of these writers is questionable as one is clearly selling a product), it seems like even those who claim to be experts don’t agree. Here are two opinions about what happens to iron when it binds with lactoferrin:

See Point #1, (written by a business and technology consultant – hmmmm…questionable credentials), claiming that their colostrum product, containing lactoferrin,

“…captures dietary iron in the gut, preventing it from entering the blood stream.”

http://immunetreesa.co.za/files/Hemochromatosis%20and%20Colostrum.pdf

The following link, however, states the opposite! This doctor writes,

“High quality first milking colostrum also contains lactoferrin, an iron-transport protein. When lactoferrin is present in the gastrointestinal tract, it captures iron from digested nutrients and facilitates its transport into the body. Having sufficient lactoferrin available is a valuable aid to those afflicted with iron deficiency anemia. In addition, high quality colostrum contains carrier proteins for the B-complex vitamins that substantially enhance their uptake into the bloodstream.”

http://ezinearticles.com/?Colostrum-For-Anemia&id=3960016

One thing that did catch my attention while researching colostrum, containing lactoferrin, is that there is a pretty universal claim out there that it is a treatment for and as a preventative for some forms of cancer. In other articles I’ve read, it’s also stated that some forms of bovine colostrum may contain estrogen, which may feed certain types of cancers (e.g. breast).

Probably the best scenario for figuring this out would be to talk with an independent researcher who has no conflicts of interest with their fingers in any product pies to ask about the risk/benefits to someone with hemochromatosis who is taking lactoferrin. It seems to have benefits for someone with rheumatic disease in terms of reducing CRP and inflammation, as well as helping to heal leaky gut, and possibly also improving iron-deficiency anemia. For someone wanting to be rid of circulating iron, though, it’s probably not worth taking until more definitive evidence arises to the contrary.

Yes, biofilm busting is a bit of a double-edged sword, because these bugs do become resistant to abx when the pressure is put on them and they can hide in their slimey hidey-holes. However, caution needs to be taken to slowly open that biofilm cage, because to do it too rapidly could result in a flood of bacteria that were better left in the biofilm. This Washington Post article (see page 2), says exactly this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/08/AR2009030801778.html

“By understanding the factors that are needed for biofilms to develop, we hope to identify chinks in the armor that can lead to novel ways to treat or prevent such kinds of infections,” Romeo said.

But dispersing biofilms without understanding all the ramifications could be a “double-edged sword,” Romeo warned, because some bacteria in a biofilm could wreak worse havoc once they disperse.

“Simply inducing biofilm dispersion without understanding exactly how it will impact the bacterium and host could be very dangerous, as it might lead to spread of a more damaging acute infection,” he said.”

I’ll try to keep looking this stuff up, Marianne, and will let you know if I find anything significant. In the meantime, wishing you good luck with your own researches.

[Anonymous]

I don’t understand why they say that normal ferritin for women is between 12 and 300. How can 12 and 300 be normal?
Linda L.

[Author]

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