Help! I don't seem to be able to tolerate blood pressure meds

[spacehoppa]

Hi everyone, I know this is rather off-topic, but I've recently been diagnosed with high blood pressure and when I tried the ACE inhibitor my GP gave me, found it made me dizzy, queasy and generally unwell.

So instead I was given a beta blocker, which I took for the first time last night. Within an hour my head felt very thick with pressure which then developed into an almighty headache that caused me to almost puke this morning. I feel dizzy and exhausted and really unwell. I am still feeling dreadful at 4pm the next day.

I'd like to ask three questions, one, is has this happened to anyone else? Two, does anyone know of any drug interactions that might cause this?

And three, does anyone know of any non-medicinal methods of reducing blood pressure? I was interested to read about bitter melon as a remedy – I think it was Trudi who said it – thanks for that. Any others?

My first aim is to stop eating sugar in all its forms, as best as I can. I think this will have several benefits, such as losing weight from my stomach – much needed. And I also intend to get off the anti-inflammatories and steroids as fast as possible.

Sorry to be a bore on this subject, but the reactions I've had to these two drugs have left me horizontal in bed moaning with the curtains shut. I can't function like that.

Thanks!

[nspiker]

Ruth,

Try the bitter melon; it's harmless, made from a fruit and can be taken when you eat.  It works, and it works fairly fast. 

The nurse that recommended it to me told me about someone who had diabetes, and within one week, had to lower their insulin.  This nurse's primary care doctor is now recommending bitter melon to her patients, since the results have been so amazing.

nancy

PS:  Just took my bp 126/74, pulse 63 😎 (It's so cool, it works). 

[spacehoppa]

Thanks Nancy, I will!

[Trudi]

[user=1552]nspiker[/user] wrote:

PS:  Just took my bp 126/74, pulse 63 😎 (It's so cool, it works). 

Nancy–

What did it run before you started taking the bitter melon?

Ruth–

I am so sorry to hear about your BP med problems.  I've had a lot of problems myself for the last 18 years with trying different meds–I started having problems in the early '90's when I had my first bout with Lyme–no matter what meds I've been on, my BP is always in a state of flux, so when my LLMD said that the electro-dermal machine indicated that the Atenolol was not doing me any good and took me off of it–I agreed.  My BP averages about 140/90 without meds.  After my 2nd bite (2003), the doctors had a devil of a time to get my BP of 230/120 to come down–so quite frankly, the non-medicated 140/90 is acceptable to me (somewhat–I keep a very close eye on it).  My kidney specialist back then said that he would be happy with a reading of 160/90–this was all relative to the 230/120, of course!   (FYI noone knew about the Lyme and I am convinced the infection does play a part with the BP). 

Has your BP affected the blood vessels in your eyes?  This is supposed to be the first area that sustained BP shows up.  I always make sure that my eye doctor thoroughly examines my veins to make sure they are not affected.  So far so good.

http://www.webmd.com/hypertension-high-blood-pressure/news/20040809/eyes-help-predict-high-blood-pressure

One of our posters has had a lot of luck with this supplement in controling her BP–

http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Way-HeartCare-Hawthorn-Extract

Hawthorne is excellent for blood pressure.   L-Arginine is also used for lowering BP.

I hope you feel better soon.  What has your BP been running? 

Take care,

Trudi

Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

[PhilC]

Hi Ruth,

Hypertension is one of the side effects of Arcoxia (etoricoxib). Here is some info on that:

Etoricoxib (Arcoxia): be aware of hypertension risk

Arcoxia (etoricoxib) – PC Final letter.qxp (PDF file)

Do COX-2 inhibitors raise blood pressure more than nonselective NSAIDs and placebo? An updated meta-analysis.

I think you should talk to your doctor about switching you to a different NSAID to see if that helps.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[spacehoppa]

Thanks so much for the suggestions. That's really helpful!

I agree Phil that getting off the etoricoxib (Arcoxia) is my first goal. I'm down to just 30mg/day versus the 120mg/day I was taking a couple of weeks ago.

My GP really wanted me on the cox-2 nsaids rather than diclofenac (which I had been fine with for more than 20 years) because of worries about my stomach, which I can understand. I have often worried about the effect it's having on my heart health though.

I'll look up hawthorne and try and get hold of some bitter melon too. Thanks again guys for some great constructive ideas.

[A Friend]

Hi Spacehoppa,

Dr. Mercola's newsletter came early am.  I found the topic about blood pressure and acidic wastes, and its effects on bp and other problems pretty profound.  [As regards a family member, I've recently learned that even weight loss can cause a bit of havoc with the acidic wastes let loose in areas of the body when fat cells dump their acidic wastes due to weight loss… but I digress! lol].  An hour or two later, I heard these same things in a news cast, about the research done at Louisiana State University above (am thinking this is probably LSU Med).  The article/research covers a number of things that are problems for many of us with our varied diagnosis. 

If this long link affects the reading of this post, I will return and convert the long link to a tinyurl. 

Get better soon!  AF

[Tuesday, May 25, 2010 8:31 AM, Dr. Mercola Newsletter…Certain waste product leads to obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, and more] 

<span style="font-size:1]http%;”>[/size]

[nspiker]

Trudi wrote:

What did it run before you started taking the bitter melon?

My blood pressure fluxuates; it's been as high as 160/100, and as low as 110/70.  I noticed it creeping up the last few years, prior to my diagnosis.  The very first day of IV clindamycin, my blood pressure dropped to 110/70.  It must have something to do with the infection…

Trudi, 140/90 must be a welcome relief after your earlier results. 

nancy

[spacehoppa]

Hi AF, Yes I watched that myself coincidentally this morning and was so impressed I sent it to my mum too, who is currently suffering high uric acid and reduced kidney function. It all comes back to sugar, it seems, so that's where I'll start first.

Thanks for the link!

[PhilC]

[user=28]A Friend[/user] wrote:

If this long link affects the reading of this post, I will return and convert the long link to a tinyurl.

There's usually no need to use tinyurl or similar services here on the board if you know how to format the links.
Here's that link in a “friendlier” form:

Startling Research Findings: A Newly Discovered Cause of High Blood Pressure and Obesity?

Here's how I did that:

Startling Research Findings: A Newly Discovered Cause of High Blood Pressure and Obesity?

🙂

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[A Friend]

Phil,

Thanks!  I needed that information. 

AF

[PhilC]

[user=415]spacehoppa[/user] wrote:

I agree Phil that getting off the etoricoxib (Arcoxia) is my first goal. I'm down to just 30mg/day versus the 120mg/day I was taking a couple of weeks ago.

My GP really wanted me on the cox-2 nsaids rather than diclofenac (which I had been fine with for more than 20 years) because of worries about my stomach, which I can understand. I have often worried about the effect it's having on my heart health though.

Hi Ruth,

You can get off the Arcoxia a lot faster by switching to a different NSAID. If your blood pressure comes down afterward then you'll be able to taper off the NSAID more slowly, or stay on it if you are unable to get completely off of it.

If your GP is concerned about your stomach, then you may want to consider asking him or her to prescribe nabumetone (Relafen) for you. It appears to be one of the safest NSAIDs as far as gastrointestinal toxicity is concerned.

See: Comparison of NSAIDs shows two with low incidence of GI toxicity

I did some additional research on the safety of nabumetone, and what I've found so far seems favorable.

See:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9195523
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17714606
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15132714

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[spacehoppa]

Thanks for the information Phil,

As of yesterday I am off the Arcoxia altogether actually and feeling no increase in symptoms. In fact, I'm feeling better than ever, which really surprises me. It makes me wonder whether yesterday's headache, fatigue and nausea was a mega herx? Hopefully it is and I'll be able to tolerate the beta blocker… I'll have to try it again at the weekend.

I'm also off the sugar and so far feeling really, really well. I just hope it lasts.

If I do need to go back on the NSAIDS though, I think your advice is really sound and I'll suggest it to the GP next time I see him. Thanks again!

[nord]

Hello Ruth,

Good that you feel better!

Late congratulations to the excellent present you have given yourself (getting the ESR down). 😉

I did see your previous thread, but have seen comments about the suitability of less OT posts previously. :-/  I am no expert or even well informed, but have seen (and supported) a few persons to naturally lowering BP sufficiently to stay out of medication. Hypertension can have several causes which means that different measures have different potential in a specific case.

These side-effects are rather common, but you seem to react worse than most. To some extent, it gets better when the body adjusts. Are you taking the minimum dose? How has your BP reacted? Have you checked your BP over the day?

I'm not sure of how your joints are now, your knees were rather badly struck, I recall? But as you've achieved such fast recovery, I have to point out that Pysical activity is very powerful in improving and maintaining health, including BP.

e g http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15613738
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20448634

Physical activity works on several parts of the system regulating BP.
Physical activity both has short-, and longterm effect on BP.
Physical activity lowers resting heartrate.
and
Physical activity has so many other health benefits as well. I've used to think of it as the closest to a miracle cure for lasting health and quality of life that there is. I understand that it can seem a bit far-fetched on a forum for rheumatics, but see it as a goal, as the scope and aim is to get better health.
If one finds it boring, intervals are more efficient than low intensity, both for cardiovascular health, and body composition (which, for health, is much better to focus on than absolute body weight).

Start easy and slow, with somthing that is fun and fits well into your normal activities (otherwise it's difficult to stay with it).

Diet: you've started out at the right end, stopping all sugar (starting with white/refined which seems worse than raw/brown) is high on the list in improving a diet, as is stopping all bad fats (hardend aka hydrogenated etc, often found in refined food as it is resistant to going stale). Medeterrainian style diet is a good bet (also for general health, whereas pop diets like atkins etc are less good in this respect), perhaps adding a bit of indian influences (for their use of natural antiinflammatories like ginger, turmeric, pepper).
Limit coffee and black tea
Limit alcohol
Cocoa: Dark (bitter, say >70% cocoa, to avoid a “sugar-shock”) choclate, a little bit a day (I recall that about 10g a day has been shown to offer significant effect).

Try to sleep enough and well.

Ideas of possible natural antiinflammatories effective in joints:
Onions
Garlic (has anti-bacterial as well as cartilage-protecting properties as well)
Turmeric, enhanced uptake with pepper (black?), which is also good in itself.
Omega 3 (“fish oil”)
Ginger
Tea (green?, black has also been mentioned, but has more stimulants potentially increasing BP), also has anti-trombocytic properties, will thus counter one of the concerns with hypertension.
Milk thistle
Oranges
I am myself looking into this and did get some full-text articles yesterday. Haven't read them yet, though.

Lutein (green leafy things) and good for general health, not the least cardiovascular, but seems to have less effect on loints. Similar for Lycopene (e g tomatoes).

Good luck!

Nancy, thank you for the Bitter melon tip, it seems to have a similar effect as cocoa? Will check this further.

[jims]

Hi Ruth, not sure if anyone else mentioned this but every time I think about high blood pressure the first thing I always think of is water intake. An RN once told me if I thought my BP was going up to drink a large glass of water. I know there is allot of information on the net about water intake and BP, among other conditions caused by chronic dehydration. I have to remind myself to drink water. Now I keep it near the bed at night as well. I am still amazed at your remission and I would really like to know all the meds you have been on post-biologics. I see the list in your signature line, is that all? I seem to recall you being on an anti-fungal as well. How long were you along on the protocol when you noticed your knees going down? Thanks a bunch. Jim:)

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