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This topic contains 29 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Trudi 5 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #307303
    Trudi
    Participant

    I’ve been adding Knox gelatin to my smoothie since the beginning of January. I’ve been slowly feeling better (don’t need my afternoon naps!) and decided to do some more research on it. I was surprised to see that glycine, found in gelatin, is good for detoxing! Other benefits of gelatin include digestion, aid in healing leaky gut, IBS, reducing pain, good for joints, etc.. Anyway, thought I’d share some of the info I found on it–

    http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/why-broth-is-beautiful?qh=YTo0OntpOjA7czo3OiJnZWxhdGluIjtpOjE7czo4OiJnZWxhdGluZSI7aToyO3M6OToiZ2VsYXRpbidzIjtpOjM7czoxMDoiZ2VsYXRpbm91cyI7fQ%3D%3D

    http://www.thorne.com/Products/Detoxification/General_Detox_Support/prd~SA512.jsp

    http://www.ehow.com/how_5751522_use-gelatin-detox.html

    Take care,
    Trudi

    Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

    #367055
    Krys
    Participant

    @trudi wrote:

    I’ve been adding Knox gelatin … I’ve been slowly feeling better (don’t need my afternoon naps!) and decided to do some more research on it. …

    This is such great news, Trudi!!! Thank you for sharing!

    Weston Price article (your 1st link):
    “It is said to be retained by most sensitive stomach and will nourish when almost nothing else will be tolerated”, wrote L.E. Hogan in 1909

    I’ll be adding gelatin!
    So far the best assimilated food for me (still not complete digestion and assimilation) is broth, white rice and boiled flax seed gel. I’m thankful to learn that adding gelatin to any food will aid in its absorption. Thanks a lot!
    Krys

    #367056
    cavalier
    Participant

    Glycine can be found in the amino acid group. However I am on the fence about using gelatin why is I already have too much collagen production due to having SD. So I am unsure if I need to eat gelatin as I am unsure how my body would use that extra collagen. Perhaps it is fine but I am cautious. See the definition below. Of course if someone does not have SD then it could be helpful.

    Gelatin (also Gelatine) is a protein product, manufactured by partial hydrolysis of collagen found in bones, hooves, connective tissues, and skin of animals. When added to recipes it produces a gel. A similar product known as agar can be obtained from vegatable sources.

    Best – Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

    #367057
    Krys
    Participant

    Jill, you are very right to be cautious.
    I don’t think I ever had SD, even though I had many SD symptoms. I never saw a rheumy and I’m positive they were all Lyme induced.
    Even when I had thick leathery skin patches with open sores and mask-like face when all wrinkles disappeared and I could not make a smile, all the rest of my skin was losing collagen at a very high rate. So I concluded that my body just was not capable of producing the right collagen and its efforts were all off.
    2 months into Bartonella treatment, my heart issues basically all resolved and my lungs stopped hurting. I can take a full lungs’ breath but since I added just 1 drop of A-Babs, even with filled up lungs, I am short of breath all the time.
    You are so right: it all depends on what issues, bugs and what weak spots our body has!

    Trudi, the articles are truly fascinating!
    Now off topic:
    You mentioned on another thread that you did not treat Bartonella because you tested negative.
    I tested negative to both Bartonella and Babesia! Maybe because I did the tests almost 2 years into intense AP and my Bartonella-like symptoms were almost gone, the Bartonella skin manifestations (as per Dr. Schaller’s book on Bartonella) were greatly diminished.
    I had lots of Bartonella and Babesia symptoms prior to AP and in the first few months of AP.
    I really wanted to treat “just in case” as I stopped making progress and my heart and lungs problems were getting worse. After 1 week of honeymoon and right after adding A-Bart, a herx from hell started and lasted intensely for 4 weeks with great improvement later on, and even greater one after 2 months. But my exhaustion went over the roof and neurological symptoms were difficult. My LLMD, due to my exhaustion, decided to add A-Babs for Babesia, “just in case”. Only 1 drop produced burning fire in the heart, veins and lungs and all kinds of other herx symptoms, strange connective tissue pain. Even intense pain right under the nails! I already had to stop the drops 3 times because I could not take the reactions.
    And I DID test negative for both of those co-infections!
    Sorry for being off topic. You had mentioned that maybe not treating Bart was a mistake. I’m bringing up Bartonella because if I don’t mention it now, I probably never will. And I thought that maybe you will benefit if you at least discuss it with your LLMD.
    I’m so glad that I am treating both, though I feel like I am going to drop dead of exhaustion in just a day or two.

    Warm wishes, Krys

    #367061
    cavalier
    Participant

    Krys you bring up a important point as i also have wondered if it is just the wrong collagen production – meaning that things that contribute to collagen production may indeed not be the enemy but the body’s repair mechanisms are wrong. In my case I also have Lyme & I like you wonder if my SD symptoms & SCL70 tests are simply a variation of my lyme expression, but I also want to be careful. My skin is raised & leathery & my face has a masklike appearance but my skin is thin in other places, why I say I feel it is just lousy collagen production in that the system is off & I am hesitant while it’s off to add more but on the other hand for all we know it could be what my body needs but I think of how it will be made, until I get the inflammatory markers down? Once I get those levels back under control I think then it will be OK to use something like gelatin.

    As to Bartonella & Babesia my doc feels I have some symptoms of both espec Babesia. What is A Bart & A Babs? Maybe good to do a trial to see if I get any response as like you I have heart & lung issues that I need to try to get into remission & safeguard! I dont totally take a negative test & rely on it seeing a response to a trial often can tell you more under a doc’s guidance or his or her knowledge of this.
    Sounds like pretty intense stuff! Hang in there.

    Jill SD, lyme & CPn

    #367059
    Trudi
    Participant

    Hi Krys–
    Thanks for your input. My ND thinks that I have babesia because of the petechiae I get. Even though my test was never positive for bartonella, I had plenty of symptoms at my outset that I won’t rule it out. However, seeing as right now I have some extensive damage to tendons & ligaments due to what we think was the quinovic acid in Cat’s Claw, I’m reluctant to start anything new that would cause me more pain. At present I’m letting “time” heal my body and I’m instinctively following my gut–kind of like my own muscle testing–to see which way I go :).

    Hi Jill–
    I agree with Krys. In fact, I did think of you when I posted this thread because I don’t know if gelatin would be a good idea for SD. Since broth seems to be working well for you, that is what I would continue.

    Take care,
    Trudi

    Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

    #367060
    cavalier
    Participant

    It’s still very interesting Trudi. I hope one day I dont have to worry about it 😀
    Am glad it’s helping you I can see where it could be very helpful to some folks.

    Best – Jill

    #367058
    cavalier
    Participant

    Krys – I came across this below, since you mentioned how hard your treatment is going for you – with the A-Bart & A-Bab. I hope you see this I wasn’t sure where to post this at so put this where you mentioned this at.

    If the cytokine faucet is too far open with no drain, patients may react strongly to the Byron White herbals. from – http://www.betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/238-bioresource-2011-conference

    If you read this entire link Krys, it gives some suggestions on how you can close the cytokine or give them a drain by use of different adjuncts – Glutathione is one, LDN was also mentioned in this link.
    Now that you know you are reacting, you can help make this treatment more tolerable & still make progress.

    Best – Jill SD, Lyme & CPn & probably more like Babesia maybe Bart.

    #367062
    Krys
    Participant

    @cavalier wrote:

    My skin is raised & leathery & my face has a masklike appearance but my skin is thin in other places, why I say I feel it is just lousy collagen production in that the system is off & I am hesitant while it’s off to add more but on the other hand for all we know it could be what my body needs but I think of how it will be made, until I get the inflammatory markers down? Once I get those levels back under control I think then it will be OK to use something like gelatin.

    I’m so sorry that those still have not resolved for you. Mine resolved within a few months on abx and came back when I had to go off abx for a couple of months.
    I think your careful approach is not just prudent, it is a necessity now. Once the markers are down, you will have an opening to revisit all kinds of additional options! You are so on top of everything, I can’t wait until you feel good enough to focus on the little things! 😛

    What is A Bart & A Babs?
    Maybe good to do a trial to see if I get any response as like you I have heart & lung issues that I need to try to get into remission & safeguard! I dont totally take a negative test & rely on it seeing a response to a trial often can tell you more under a doc’s guidance or his or her knowledge of this.
    Sounds like pretty intense stuff! Hang in there.

    A-Bart and A-Babs are very potent antimicrobials, herbal based. My LLMD added them because he thought they would really make the treatment thorough. I was told to start with 1 drop a day for the 1st week, then 2 drops a day for the 2nd week, and so on. A-Babs was added when I was at 10 drops of A-Bart, with lots of issues resolved, just deepening, overwhelming fatigue and total inability to handle stress, to the point of bouts of insanity (that’s what it felt like! 😈 ).
    I had potent symptoms of both Bart and Babs prior to abx and for the first few months. Then they significantly subsided and that’s when I did the tests which were negative. I still had heart and lungs problems which subsided in the beginning of abx and 1,5 years later blew out to big issues.

    @cavalier wrote:

    If the cytokine faucet is too far open with no drain, patients may react strongly to the Byron White herbals. from – http://www.betterhealthguy.com/joomla/blog/238-bioresource-2011-conference

    …it gives some suggestions on how you can close the cytokine or give them a drain by use of different adjuncts – Glutathione is one, LDN was also mentioned in this link.

    Thank you, Jill. I’ll study it!
    My LLMD suggested glutathione and I am taking it. LDN is out of question for me, it started my downward slide with deep exhaustion and pain at various organs and all acupressure points. I have never recovered (it’s been 6 months) and A-Bart and now A-Babs deepened it. At present most of the detox is out for me so I’m doing all that is still available (glutathione, massive C, Pekana, juicing, which seems not to be absorbed at all 👿 , foot soaks with detoxification mudras — the last one seems to work the strongest). I’ll study the link and see what else I can do. Thanks a lot!!!

    @trudi wrote:

    Hi Krys–
    Thanks for your input. My ND thinks that I have babesia because of the petechiae I get. Even though my test was never positive for bartonella, I had plenty of symptoms at my outset that I won’t rule it out. However, seeing as right now I have some extensive damage to tendons & ligaments due to what we think was the quinovic acid in Cat’s Claw, I’m reluctant to start anything new that would cause me more pain.

    I have petechiae all over my body. None on the face! 😛 I never had any prior to my present Lyme onset. I had tendons and ligaments problems within the first 6 months on abx and my LLMD told me to use granulated teasel extract and it worked!

    Thanks to your previous posts about your reaction to Cat’s Claw, I was very vigilant when I restarted it a few months ago and I noticed that I started having a big increase in neuropathies, some creepy crawlies on my scalp and face and I discontinued it and the thing resolved within a week. Thank you very much for writing about it! I would have never connected the dots! I would have taken those as part of a herxheimer reaction!

    At present I’m letting “time” heal my body and I’m instinctively following my gut–kind of like my own muscle testing–to see which way I go :).

    Smart approach! Especially that you are healing the quinolone induced damage.
    You are very lucky to have a great ND! I think I will search for a good ND within next few months. I will need help with rebuilding of all body systems.

    For me bone broths, gelatin, boiled flax, + mucilaginous herbs, which I just can’t fit in now, are a necessity to heal the mucus membranes all throughout the body. Those were hit and never healed with Lyme in childhood. I never had any Bartonella and Babesia symptoms back then. Those came with the present infection.

    If it hadn’t been for Maz and RBF, I would have never found I had Lyme and would have been dead a few times by now.

    Trudi, can you share what kind of gelatin you buy? As you have already done the research, it would be so much easier to use your knowledge and take an easy way out, if you don’t mind?

    Thanks for your great generosity!
    You are both so awesome!!!
    Love, Krys

    #367063
    cavalier
    Participant

    LDN is def. not for everyone. It seems to be a boon or a negative for others!

    I actually am considering doing a trial to see if i go off of LDN for a bit to see if my pain levels may go down or not – it will tell me if the increased pain is from the LDN or if it’s from disease excaberation, as well as fatigue.

    I learn as much from everyone else on here – we are all on a road back literally.

    Best – Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

    #367064
    cavalier
    Participant

    Maz is a huge help to many of us no doubt!

    Jill SD, Lyme & CPn

    #367065
    Trudi
    Participant

    @krys wrote:

    Trudi, can you share what kind of gelatin you buy? As you have already done the research, it would be so much easier to use your knowledge and take an easy way out, if you don’t mind?

    Hi Krys–
    Right now I just use the plain Knox gelatin in packets. I open up a handful and put the contents into a container and then scoop out what I want. I started with a small amount to begin with–maybe 1/2 tsp. Wanted to make sure it didn’t bother me :). I now use 2 tsp. I think I will eventually go to a full pack.

    In the future, I may use the plain Knox NutraJoint–it has vitamins and minerals included–
    http://www.knox.com/

    Good luck with it–
    Trudi

    Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

    #367066
    Krys
    Participant

    @trudi wrote:

    …I open up a handful and put the contents into a container and then scoop out what I want. I started with a small amount to begin with–maybe 1/2 tsp. Wanted to make sure it didn’t bother me :). I now use 2 tsp. I think I will eventually go to a full pack.

    Thank you, Trudi! I’ll be adding it to my food.
    Lots of blessings on your healing journey, Krys

    #367068
    Trudi
    Participant

    @krys wrote:

    Thanks to your previous posts about your reaction to Cat’s Claw, I was very vigilant when I restarted it a few months ago and I noticed that I started having a big increase in neuropathies, some creepy crawlies on my scalp and face and I discontinued it and the thing resolved within a week. Thank you very much for writing about it! I would have never connected the dots! I would have taken those as part of a herxheimer reaction!

    I didn’t connect the dots either as far as the neuropathies until reading your response. I double checked when I started Cat’s Claw and sure enough I started complaining to the doctor of numb toes shortly thereafter :(. My toes are still numb after all these years (4). I took the Cat’s Claw for a whole year. In Buhner’s book “Healing Lyme” I know he mentioned to take for only a short period of time. Yikes! I hope this is not going to be permanent!!

    You are very lucky to have a great ND!

    My ND also had Lyme disease; she is doing very well now. She recommends turmeric, cloves, and quinine for babesia. I put clove powder in my smoothies and add turmeric to my food. I actually wasn’t seeing her often (once a year) because of seeing the LLMD and then the chiropractor. I think that may change soon–as soon as I get over the being “doctored out” if you get my drift :)!

    Take care,
    Trudi

    Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

    #367067
    Krys
    Participant

    @trudi wrote:

    My ND….recommends turmeric, cloves, and quinine for babesia. I put clove powder in my smoothies and add turmeric to my food.

    Trudi, I get even worse (over the roof, like insanity) neuropathies on cloves. Same on Wormwood. Cinnamon Casia does same as Cat’s Claw (less than cloves), sweet cinnamon – none.
    So maybe it is Babesia’s die off toxins being so very poisonous to the nervous system?
    I am getting some mild neuropathies on A-Babs now, but less than on the above. Cloves have the most toxic effect for me.

    Turmeric is good. I use Turmeric in all cooking and have self made Turmeric capsules. I used to take it for inflammation and pain (+ ginger, bromelain, papain, Cayenne pepper). Lately, I use it to stimulate bile production. When the inflammation is big I switch to Curcumin (Turmeric extract) and I take it 3x a day 3 capsules + same amount of Quercetin. That + Stephania helped me get off steroids.
    My only exposure to quinine is through Bag Balm. It’s awesome!
    How do you get quinine? Is it by prescription?

    Funny how often the threads change the subject! My fault here, but I’m so benefiting, I ‘m not apologizing!
    Warm wishes, Krys

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