FMT for Arthritis Possible in Future?

[Anonymous]

http://www.fecalmicrobiotatransplantation.org/2014/01/link-between-rheumatoid-arthritis.html

“News on Fecal Microbiota Transplantation (FMT)
Monday, January 13, 2014
Link between Rheumatoid Arthritis, Treatments and Gut Bacteria? FMT for Arthritis Possible in Future?
“Researchers have linked a species of intestinal bacteria known as Prevotella copri to the onset of rheumatoid arthritis, the first demonstration in humans that the chronic inflammatory joint disease may be mediated in part by specific intestinal bacteria…Seventy-five percent of stool samples from patients newly diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis carried P. copri compared to 21.4% of samples from healthy individuals; 11.5% from chronic, treated patients; and 37.5% from patients with psoriatic arthritis.

Rheumatoid arthritis is treated with an assortment of medications, including antibiotics, anti-inflammatory drugs like steroids, and immunosuppressive therapies that tame immune reactions. Little is understood about how these medications affect gut bacteria. This latest research offers an important clue, showing that treated patients with chronic rheumatoid arthritis carry smaller populations of P. copri.

[Maz]

@aoshi_xken wrote:

Rheumatoid arthritis is treated with an assortment of medications, including antibiotics, anti-inflammatory drugs like steroids, and immunosuppressive therapies that tame immune reactions. Little is understood about how these medications affect gut bacteria. This latest research offers an important clue, showing that treated patients with chronic rheumatoid arthritis carry smaller populations of P. copri.

[Anonymous]

Around 80% of the immune system is in the gut in order to differentiate pathogens from nutriments. The exterior world enters our body not from skin cuts, but by our mouths.

The immunoregulatory processes that take place in our gut are mainly controlled by our gut flora. There are more and more cases of people with autoimmune disorders (such as Crohn’s and UC) that benefit from FMT.

Wouldn’t it be great to know one of us had the ressources to actually test FMT and see if the immune system calms down? It’s quite hard to have a donor (tested) and a doctor willing to do the procedure (only approved for C.Difficile).

But there is hope for FMT in capsules though:
https://idsa.confex.com/idsa/2013/webprogram/Paper41627.html

[Maz]

@aoshi_xken wrote:

Wouldn’t it be great to know one of us had the ressources to actually test FMT and see if the immune system calms down? It’s quite hard to have a donor (tested) and a doctor willing to do the procedure (only approved for C.Difficile).

This is all very promising, Aoshi. Thanks for sharing. 🙂

Some of the hurdles that popped to mind are these:

According to the following article (researcher in Canada is producing “poop pills”) is that the American IDSA is involved in the study of this and there isn’t a lot of trust about what these guys will approve, especially if it conflicts with any research they have in the pipeline. A hopeful aspect of this is that it’s a Canadian researcher who is advocating this treatment and so it may happen up in the north, regardless of what politics may be going on here. I think the bottom line is that this treatment will likely become more mainstreamed – one way or another – and if the IDSA or FDA puts the brakes on this for treating AI diseases, then it’s going to happen anyway, elsewhere in the world. Did you see the video in two parts that Lynnie posted a couple weeks ago? Brilliant stuff.

Did you see this link about the “poop pill” doc up in Canada?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/poop-pills-can-treat-c-difficile-calgary-doctor-says-1.1895079

The other concern I have about poop transplants, either by mouth or via colonoscopy, is that we don’t know yet which AI disease may be triggered or perpetuated by what type of gut imbalance. It could well be that each person’s microbiome is unique on both an individual basis and in terms of how the AI disease manifested. For instance, we know some folk’s AI disease may be triggered by oral microbes, or urinary microbes or infections passed along by ticks. It could very well be that a person’s genetics will play into this, so that folks who are HLA B27 positive will need to be recolonized with different bugs than someone who is HLA DR1 or 4 positive. The worst case scenario is that a person could be recolonized by generally good bacteria that could confer survival strategies on the “evil-doers” in the gut biofilm.

Studies like the American Gut Project are going to shed a lot of light on what diseases are driven by what microbes and if there will be a universal poop pill that all can take, some can take or whether they need to be individualized or not, depending on an individual’s unique gut make-up and genetics. The Langone gut studies are interesting, but right now they’re just too narrow, focusing only one oral pathogen that may drive the disease of a percentage of RAers or PsAers, but what of the others in the same disease group who don’t have this bug in their guts?

I think what needs to be watched are researchers who may jump the gun on all this and create studies that limit or pervert outcomes so that the research gets put in the “fringe science” pile for another 20 or 30 years. This has happened with recent research now coming out of The Uni of Utah, drawing correlations to Lyme arthritis and RA and a deficiency in GusB, a lysosomal enzyme within the cells of these folks (us) that prevent the body from releasing nasty toxins. This deficiency was reported decades ago and placed on the backburner. So, it’s possible that if these researchers take this to the next level with human studies, it could be as simple as replacing this deficient enzyme. They’re calling it a “lysosomal storage disease,” but it sure echos Dr. Brown’s work on rheumatic hypersensitivity. Of course, a deficiency in this enzyme may well be a genetic thing, but it’s fascinating that they’re finding this deficiency in chronic Lyme arthritis patients, too, which seems to suggest that an infection plays a role in flipping that genetic switch (just my interpretation, though).

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/72339

And, more promising research out of UK, posted by Lynne the other day:

http://www.bris.ac.uk/news/2014/september/autoimmune-disease.html

All this is some way off yet, but I agree with you that it’s very, very exciting indeed and we just have to hope that the research is done carefully and that no vested interests will prevent the furtherance of such promise. Let’s hope, eh? 🙂

[Anonymous]

That 75% of patients with Prevotella Copri have never been treated with RA medications.
One of my friends watched a TV program some time ago about an ill cow, which couldn’t even stand up. They discovered that it lacked one of the bacterias. That bacteria was taken from a healthy cow and pumped into the sick one. It improved rapidly and was doing well.
Linda L.

[lee]

I have not been here in awhile but noticed this thread and thought I would respond if I could help anyone.

I had 3 fecal transplants. I can tell you it took my joint pain and alot of the fatigue and eye dryness away. If anyone is interested in a dr. in the US that is doing these for other reasons than c diff you can pm me.

[Author]

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