Home Forums General Discussion What is IGG vs IGM testing – Virus question

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  • #453454
    Airen
    Participant

    So my doctors have been telling me since January that I have a “large viral load.” That I have tested positive for EBV, CMV and Parvo B19. All my labs show very high numbers for IGG but nothing for IGM. I THOUGHT that IGG is past and IGM is current. SO, if I have high numbers for IGG does that mean I DO NOT have an active infection??? If so why would they tell me that I do have EBV or CMV?? Numbers below are from January but have continued to test a few times since and still have similar results.

    EBV Early Antigen Ab, IgG 10.2 – Marked as HIGH
    EBV Ab VCA, IgG 497 – Marked as HIGH
    EBV Nuclear Antigen Ab, IgG <18 NEGATIVE

    Parvo B19, IgG 3.1 – Marked as HIGH
    Parvo B19, IgM “result being verified. final report to follow.”

    Cytomegalovirus (CMV) Ab, IgG 2.10 – Marked as HIGH
    Cytomegalovirus (CMV) Ab, IgM <30.0 – NEGATIVE

    HHV 6 IgG Antibodies 3.07 – Marked as HIGH

    Mycoplasma pneumoniae, IgG Ab 461 – Marked as HIGH
    Mycoplasma pneumoniae, IgM Ab <770 – NEGATIVE

    Thanks!

    Diagnosed with RA in October 2014, pain started in February 2014
    Started AP in June 2015
    Taking daily: 32.5 mg WP thyroid 6 am, 100 mg mino 9 am, 16.25 mg WP thyroid 2 pm, B Complex for MTHFR mutation 3 pm, Multivitamin 3pm, 100 bil powdered probiotics 6 pm, 5-8,000 iu Vit D 6 pm, 100 mg mino 9 pm

    #453477
    Airen
    Participant

    Anyone please??

    Diagnosed with RA in October 2014, pain started in February 2014
    Started AP in June 2015
    Taking daily: 32.5 mg WP thyroid 6 am, 100 mg mino 9 am, 16.25 mg WP thyroid 2 pm, B Complex for MTHFR mutation 3 pm, Multivitamin 3pm, 100 bil powdered probiotics 6 pm, 5-8,000 iu Vit D 6 pm, 100 mg mino 9 pm

    #454092
    MLTelfer
    Participant

    When there is an infection naïve B cells first produce IGM antibodies. IGM are the first class of antibodies to have evolved and are very good at activating the adaptive immune system when there is an initial infection. They are also good at neutralizing viruses because they bind to them and prevent them from invading a cell. But they are short lived – having a half-life of about one day. They are great first line of defense antibodies.

    IGG is the most abundant antibody class in the blood. It is also effective in neutralizing viruses and is the longest lived antibody with a half life of about three weeks. IGG comes in a lot of different classes and can serve many purposes with more specificity than IGM. It is also unique in that it is the antibody that can pass between the mothers placenta to the baby – so that may give you an indication of how important it is!

    Keep in mind that the immune system is designed to turn itself off as an invader is conquered. It makes sense that as the innate immune system (of which IGM is a part of) activates and passes workload to the adaptive immune system, different parts of the immune system cascade activate and deactivate as the battle evolves.

    #454093
    MLTelfer
    Participant

    In other words, just because IGM was first to the fight doesn’t the infection is no longer current. The battle has evolved and the IGM may no longer be needed. The baton has been passed further down the immune system cascade,

    #454099
    Airen
    Participant

    So from your amazing explanation above I still don’t know if I have an issue with these? Do I have EBV?

    Diagnosed with RA in October 2014, pain started in February 2014
    Started AP in June 2015
    Taking daily: 32.5 mg WP thyroid 6 am, 100 mg mino 9 am, 16.25 mg WP thyroid 2 pm, B Complex for MTHFR mutation 3 pm, Multivitamin 3pm, 100 bil powdered probiotics 6 pm, 5-8,000 iu Vit D 6 pm, 100 mg mino 9 pm

    #454103
    MLTelfer
    Participant

    WELLLLL..I will render an uneducated opinion. I have been self studying the immune system for hundreds of hours this year to understand what is really going on with my son, so I have a very basic understanding of the mechanics. It is so complicated that I could never profess proficiency but….here goes.
    I believe this is a past infection. Once your immune system responded there is immunologic memory and antibodies that will remain there forever to be detected.
    One other thing I have learned in studying bloodwork is that these tests are not “free-standing”. They have to be interpreted in juxtaposition to other measurements in your blood…there are interconnections. That is why doctors have to look at them.
    This is not a recent infection – it happened a while ago. I would ask your doctor if this is an active infection.
    My guess is it is a definitely a past infection.

    #454106
    Maz
    Keymaster

    So from your amazing explanation above I still don’t know if I have an issue with these? Do I have EBV?

    Hi Airen,

    Just some thoughts to add to MLTelfer’s insights, any virus has the capacity to remain in the body in latent form throughout our lives and may reactivate at various times. The classic example is chicken pox and, later, reactivation as shingles. Reactivation can occur when the body is stressed in some way (e.g. Another unrelated infection) or immune function is compromised in some other way. As explained below, B cells respond to infection, so when these cells are activated by another invader, it’s possible that this then reactivates EBV.

    Wikipedia isn’t always the best or most reliable resource and the following article still requires citations to be added, but it has a pretty comprehensive explanation about EBV and how, in latent form, inhabits B-cells and epithelial cells (connective, muscle and nerve tissues). B-cells are a sub-type of white blood cells, called lymphocytes, and these play a big role in humoral immunity.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein%E2%80%93Barr_virus

    “Once EBV’s initial lytic infection is brought under control, EBV latently persists in the individual’s B cells for the rest of the individual’s life.[8]”

    “Reactivation

    Latent EBV in B cells can be reactivated to switch to lytic replication. This is known to happen in vivo, but what triggers it is not known precisely. In vitro, latent EBV in B cells can be reactivated by stimulating the B cell receptor, so reactivation in vivo probably takes place when latently infected B cells respond to unrelated infections.[11] In vitro, latent EBV in B cells can also be reactivated by treating the cells with sodium butyrate or TPA.[citation needed]”

    So, yes, IgG means past infection whatever virus is being tested, so it means there was an infection at some point in the past and that these remain latent in the body. As some viruses have been correlated with triggering other diseases (e.g. HPV and cervical cancer), it is worth keeping the immune system in good shape and some folks will employ naturopathic supps in an attempt to reduce viral load (e.g. olive leaf or grapefruit seed extract) and support immunity (e.g. Vitamin C and glutathione).

    In other words, just because one has had chicken pox in life doesn’t mean they will get shingles later, but doing what one can to avert the potential can’t hurt and might help….especially if using immune-suppressant meds or one suffers from immunodeficiency disorders/diseases.

    For someone with Lyme disease, this may be particularly relevant, especially as Lyme quickly burrows into the lymphatic system and initiates a rapid B-cell response and speaks to how this tricky infection can reactivate latent viruses. It’s really no wonder that chronic Lyme patients present with myriad, complex symptoms when this insidious infection has the capacity to hijack the immune system and reawaken sleeping beasts while also preventing the immune system from mounting adequate response to any infection, new or latent and reactivated. Remember, IgM and IgG are immunoglobulins and tests that measure these are “indirect,” just looking at the body’s response to a particular infection. If the immune system can’t “see” the infection, there will be little or no antibody (IGs) presenting in the test. This is why some docs prefer not to use the label “Lyme” anymore, but MSIDs (mixed systemic infectious diseases syndrome). See article, outlining research findings from UC Davis, below:

    http://news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=9922

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