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Hello Everyone,
I can’t tell you how excited I’ve recently become — not only for research found that I’d never seen before, but for the large number of outstanding doctors, scientists, and institutions whose names are involved. This morning there was a need to know if Vitamin C had a track record for treating metabolic disorders. I must confess that I wasn’t expecting to find “rocket science” displayed, but it doesn’t take a lot to make me happy — must confess to you, what I “accidentally” found has my heart pounding… not only because of the content, but because of the who and where involved. And, they’ve given their contact information for patients, etc. to contact them. Duct tape on my mouth now… I want to share this with you. This is the way it unfolded:
I decided to do an Internet search using the words: Vitamin C Therapy for Metabolic Disorders
This on down below from Uni Sci was the first of several sites found using the above search words (and I never got to the other links found):[Note from AF: From reading/studying a book this year by Linus Pauling, two-time Nobelist:
That I will buy into –I started taking Emergen-C which is a 1000 mg of vitamin C –result more energy and less colds and recently when I got a cold bought this “Zicam which is a zinc type product –one is supposed to take up to four a day until cold symptoms subside –result- cold eased in two days and went totally away in fur –usually with me its a one or two week deal –definitely something to it !!
richieRichie,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Coming from you, Richie, it is impressive! I have heard stories similar to yours over the years, but had not become knowledgeable of it myself. I believe I’m the vintage that probably heard the negative mainstream comments saying it had been over-hyped. But, just this year I have been learning the truth about Vitamin C from credible scientific sources, especially as pertains to chronic illnesses involving everything from the head/eyes down to our toes. (It has been interesting to study Pauling’s book from the Index topics in the back, and even learn about how IQ’s of children with Down’s Syndrome (and others) have been raised considerably. In the Index, there are many maladies that Linus Pauling has devoted whole chapters to. Wish I had learned way back then what I’ve been learning this year. Can’t believe this eluded my radar the last 20 years of study.
AFPS Sharing some topics and links which I’m sure are being helpful to me:
1) http://www.doctoryourself.com/titration.html
How to Determine a Therapeutic Dose of Vitamin C
By Robert F. Cathcart, MDMedical Hypotheses, 7:1359-1376, 1981.
VITAMIN C, TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE, ANASCORBEMIA, AND ACUTE INDUCED SCURVY
Robert F. Cathcart, III, M.D. Allergy, Environmental, and Orthomolecular Medicine 127 Second Street, Los Altos, California 94022, USA Telephone 650-949-2822 http://www.orthomed.com[Ed. Note: Excerpt below is from title above on determining dosage.]
ABSTRACT
A method of utilizing vitamin C in amounts just short of the doses which produce diarrhea is described (TITRATING TO BOWEL TOLERANCE). The amount of oral ascorbic acid tolerated by a patient without producing diarrhea increases somewhat proportionately to the stress or toxicity of his disease. Bowel tolerance doses of ascorbic acid ameliorate the acute symptoms of many diseases. Lesser doses often have little effect on acute symptoms but assist the body in handling the stress of disease and may reduce the morbidity of the disease. However, if doses of ascorbate are not provided to satisfy this potential draw on the nutrient, first local tissues involved in the disease, then the blood, and then the body in general become deplete of ascorbate (ANASCORBEMIA and ACUTE INDUCED SCURVY). The patient is thereby put at risk for complications of metabolic processes known to be dependent upon ascorbate.____________________________________________________________________________________
2) http://www.doctoryourself.com/stenosis.html
Spinal Stenosis, Ruptured Disks, and Chronic Back Problems
Spinal Stenosis — Home SPINAL STENOSIS AND RELATED PAINFUL BACK PROBLEMS
[Excerpt below. Click link above to see entire article. The initial quote about the case study continues near the bottom of the page that opens with the link above.]SPINAL STENOSIS AND RELATED PAINFUL BACK PROBLEMS
AF, I found 5000mg, at one time, of the Ascorbyl Palmitate was a bit too much a far as bowel tolerance…. this is the form of Vit C I’ve been using for the last few yrs….forget just why, I think regarding Vit C and allergy issues some seem to have.
So I’ll go slower with the C thru the day to work up to higher dose thru the day….see if it helps the stenosis issue….thanks jam
@jaminhealth wrote:
AF, I found 5000mg, at one time, of the Ascorbyl Palmitate was a bit too much a far as bowel tolerance…. this is the form of Vit C I’ve been using for the last few yrs….forget just why, I think regarding Vit C and allergy issues some seem to have. So I’ll go slower with the C thru the day to work up to higher dose thru the day….see if it helps the stenosis issue….thanks jam
Jam,
Did you review the paper by Dr. Cathcart which gave instructions for first determining/arriving at the optimal dose for each person/patient? If not, I believe the paper said the way to evaluate/determine the right dosage for each patient was for them first to use Ascorbate Powder to determine the bowel tolerance amount (he wrote not to use Sodium Ascorbate or Calcium Ascorbate while determining the correct dosage; and that once we determine our bowel tolerance amount using Vitamin C/Ascorbate, that the patient needs to back down to the previous dosage that did not cause loose stools, and then for each patient to use this best “dosage” using the form(s) we prefer). [Because of my history the past several years of having built up so much acidosis in my body… (and not knowing that was causing me so much pain and deterioration at the same time), I’ve pretty much tended to use the buffered powder known as Sodium Ascorbate. I’ve learned from reading in Linus Pauling’s book some of his suggested ways of mixing some of these powders together (these ways depending on the patient’s body, etc.]If any of you have not learned how to correctly use pH test strips to “monitor” whether your body appears to be in an ideal range (per the test strips), I’ve found that is a very good way for me to know if I need to do more to help bring my pH reading to a healthier place. (I don’t believe any kind of pH testing — either using the pH test strips OR if it is done by a lab — are necessarily accurate, because for the body to sustain life, our blood pH MUST remain in a very narrow range for us to remain alive; and our bodies will rob itself from our fascia, bones, etc. to get the minerals it needs to help neutralize and excrete acids that are negatively affecting our blood pH. Don’t have the links at my finger tips now about this (and surely don’t want to lose this post!!!). But, can paste it here later.
These links might be helpful for ready references, if we forget about how to determine the right Vitamin C/Ascorbate amounts for us:
http://arthritistrust.org/Articles/Vitamin%20C%20How%20to%20Use%20the%20Great%20Missing%20Vitamin.pdf
Supplement to The Art of Getting Well, Vitamin C: How to Use The Great Missing Vitamin
Cathcart’s “Bowel Tolerance” technique is simple to apply.http://www.doctoryourself.com/titration.html
[This link is amazing! ]
How to Determine a Therapeutic Dose of Vitamin C
By Robert F. Cathcart, MD
Medical Hypotheses, 7:1359-1376, 1981.Will be hoping for good results for you soon OR not too far down the road!!!
AF
Oh Brother, AF
Discussing this subject on a health board I’m a member of, a member came back with this info, so much differing advice, I asked for a site where he got this info: (I don’t smoke)
People with Ostearthritis should not take mega doses of vit C. Particularly if they are smokers.
The maximum you should take is 500mg, preferably to be with magnesium, zinc and vitamin D. 500mg is actually 7X the RDA. Research has shown that doses above 500mg can induce bone spur growth in Osteo-arthritis.The cause appears to be a cytokine called TGFbeta (transforming growth factor) which is activated by high levels of ascorbate. TGFbeta probably mediates this spur growth.
The very thing which causes pain. This can be mitigated to a small degree by taking Glucosamine and Chondroitin Sulphate.
Not that short term pain can’t be reduced by high levels of ascorbate but in the long term damage will be being done. Where the spur growth occurs is idiopathic. If you have spinal stenosis be careful with vit C. Better to use anti-inflammatory protocol of vitamin D, curcuminoids and EPA/DHA.The opposite is true for Rheumatoid arthritis where people who are deficient/insufficient for Vit C are helped by high doses of vit C to reduce pain. Also that people who are deficient in vit C are more likely to develop RA. So low vit C is a risk factor for RA, as it is for all “auto-immune” diseases.
The difference is that in RA some of the pain is immunological.
@jaminhealth wrote:
Oh Brother, AF
Discussing this subject on a health board I’m a member of, a member came back with this info, so much differing advice, I asked for a site where he got this info: (I don’t smoke)
People with Ostearthritis should not take mega doses of vit C. Particularly if they are smokers.
The maximum you should take is 500mg, preferably to be with magnesium, zinc and vitamin D. 500mg is actually 7X the RDA. Research has shown that doses above 500mg can induce bone spur growth in Osteo-arthritis. …..#2 Reply to your post:
Jamin, All,
Just did a search after posting my reply to Jamin below. I looks like what Jamin read may have come from this link, which seems to be a Vitamin C Foundation bulletin board.
http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=201There are many entities, some of them well-known institutions over the years that tried to steer others away from the benefits of Vitamin C. Let the reader/researcher decide… but not without going to LPI also (Linus Pauling Foundation Research… which is ongoing research facility. Will post a link here as soon as I find it.
Several links found and pasting all three:
And various Vitamin C research studies can be read on this link:
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminC/
Linus Pauling Institute, Micronutrient Information CenterThe person who gave me the info said it was a lot of notes from lectures over the years and also sited a couple links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15188359
and:
I totally disagree with statement from Uni Sci Daily University Science News that “Linus Pauling’s claim that vitamin C can prevent the common cold remains unproven”. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I can relate from personal experience. I am in my mid 70s and have had asthma since childhood. Over the past 30 years I have been diagnosed by my family physician with COPD. During this time I routinely had two sometimes more COPD occurancies a year which would result in trips to the doctor and numerous prescriptions for antibiotics such as z-pac. Nebulizers and vaporizers were in constant use. Once the infection was gone then the coughing would continue for weeks.
Since taking a relatively new form of oral vitamin C I have not had even as much as a sniffle. The product is liposome encapsulated vitamin C. There is no bowel intolerance to worry about. You can take thousands of milligrams a day with no problems. One milligram of this product is equivalent to 4-6 milligrams of powder or capsules. In other words the bioavailability
is much greater. What I use, I Lypo-Spheric vitamin C. It can be purchased on Amazon or from the manufacturer at Livon Labs.com. It comes in one milligram packets that can be taken with any cold liquid. It cost about $1 per packet. A small price to pay for staying healthy. You can also make encapsulated C at home very simply and cheaply as I do.
The best source for information on the miraculous benefits of vitamin C can be had by reading books by Thomas E Levy, MD, JD
“Primal Panacea” and “Curing the Incurable”. Also you can google Dr. Frederick Klenner who is one of the pioneers in vitamin C therapy.I have been looking into Mega Vitamin treatments ever since Pearson & Shaw released Life Extension, still have it somewhere around. I used to follow a number of their protocols, unfortunately didn’t seem as effective as they claimed. I have done a lot of research over the years, LOTSSSSSSSSSSS.
My conclusion is, with perhaps very few exceptions, MegaDosing can be downright dangerous. Many of the antioxidants are somewhat effective at normal doses, but at megadoses, they become Pro Oxidants, exactly the opposite of what you want, they can actually contribute to cellular damage. Same is true for some anti inflammatories, normal dose, they can help, but take a high dose and they actually increase inflammation. All this stuff is available in Pubmed, free to anyone who will take the time to research it. Sometimes, less is more.
John
Hello all. I would like to say Linus Pauling took thousands of times the RDA of Vit C and many other vital nutrients. He lived way up into his 90’s. Years ago a back doctor via x-ray once told me I had one of the largest bone spurs he had seen, I didn’t take supplemental C, smoked like a chimney for 23 years. Vitamin C is given as an i.v. to thousands of folks. If you buy into the leaky gut theory ( I do) it makes perfect sense to increase nutrients as our bodies are being robbed of them. I think that food is first, then whole food vitamins, and then synthetic versions as those ligands(gatekeepers) of our cells try to keep foreign substances out which includes synthetic vitamins. That’s what was explained to me. I think this robbing of nutrients begins early and leads to many afflictions including osteo. Great thread! jims
Forty years ago, as a teenager with JRA, my parents took me to a doctor who was all about this. He was quite frustrated that the Vit C therapy didn’t cure me…
@misteri wrote:
Forty years ago, as a teenager with JRA, my parents took me to a doctor who was all about this. He was quite frustrated that the Vit C therapy didn’t cure me…
Hi Misteri,
Something most of us have to learn when we develop chronic illnesses is “there is no magic bullet.” The way Medicine is practiced, it has brainwashed us to look for just that.Hope you will study and learn all you can about the loss of human ability to synthesize Vitamin C in the body. This happened in man and a few of the animals eons ago.
Vitamin C (while I think it can be close to a magic bullet… expecially when we are ill and deficient in it) is important, we are all different and are uniquely deficient in different needed substances — vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc., etc., etc.
Our job these days is to learn what is going on in our body (the larger problems can be profoundly different in groups of us). Several things I’ve learned that were very important in my own illness journey (and needed addressing) were: As a person with Blood Type A, I lacked digestive enzymes to break down and absorb amino acids from meat protein. This eventually (after it had borrowed all of the available minerals it safely could) began accumulating and storing much acidic waste. Even though my diet (as far as I could determine) was very healthy, my amino acids needed for metabolic detoxification PLUS especially needed magnesium chloride (my favorite kind/learned from Dr. Sherry Rogers’ books–she has five medical degrees), helped me to change my acidic body (first time tested, had a reading of 5.0.. as acidic as the strips measured — this test is not scientific, but does show if you are in the general range of healthy pH). When we become overly acidic, it provides just the right kind of environment for all kinds of unhealthy, unfriendly organisms to multiply in our body — and as I understand it, this also leads to yeast/fungal overgrowth, which are part of the unhealthy organisms.
The above is just a tad of what I had to learn to address numerous problems that “were eating me for lunch” — but a very important “tad.”
Good luck to you. But hope you will remember, there is no single magic bullet… it takes our body’s parts working together and doing what they were designed to do, plus our figuring out its needs (there is lots of information out there; and some of it is intentially wrong … I believe to push us to look for an RX magic bullet. I do believe AP which Dr. Brown found, for us (for me, Minocin) was/and can be when needed, close to a magic bullet temporarily, as long as I do my part in adding healthy other things. To this I’ll add, we are also what our genes have given us, some predispositions — their weaknesses and their strengths. We have to keep attuned to what is going wrong on (become detectives), and healthy ways we can address these, and tweak here and there.
AF
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