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  • #303761
    casey
    Participant

    Some interesting reading here.

    http://lup.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/4/2/131

    http://www.annals.org/content/73/1/109.abstract  ( Recent advances in rheumatic diseases 1967 through 1969)

    Below the publications are “Articles citing this article”. These are excellent reads.There is lyme info here as well . What gets me are some of the dates here. For crying out loud, when is so called”advanced medicine” going to get it!!! $%&*!!! They knew this back in the day and when patients go in for “rheumatic ” tests, seldom if never do they test for these infections.

    #343739
    casey
    Participant

    I am starting to wonder if medicine has been and is putting together Part 2 of the true story movie  called “Miss Ever's Boy's” only involving different pathogens.

    #343740
    Maz
    Keymaster

    [user=9]casey[/user] wrote:

    Below the publications are “Articles citing this article”. These are excellent reads.There is lyme info here as well . What gets me are some of the dates here. For crying out loud, when is so called”advanced medicine” going to get it!!! $%&*!!! They knew this back in the day and when patients go in for “rheumatic ” tests, seldom if never do they test for these infections.

    Hi Casey,

    I think the problem is the first link above…they're talking about “false positive” seroreactivity for Lyme to standard tests with rheumatic illness and warning of this potential. Basically, they're saying don't bother testing rheumatic patients for Lyme, because of the greater incidence of false positives.

    This is a complete crock,because the conclusions for this test basically mean that if a person has a rheumatic disease, then they can't possibly have Lyme disease, because there will be false positives. Who do they think they're kidding? Maybe the doctors? They found Lyme in CT because of an inordinately large cluster of folk with autoimmune diseases! This cluster was so big, it was many times bigger than the percentage chance of a normal population's cases of autoimmunity.

    There is a far greater risk of false negatives with Lyme testing than false positives, according to LLMDs, because Lyme is so immunosuppressive. This is why the consider positive tests positive and ignore negative results and go by symptom complex and patient history. Lyme tests, like ELISA and Western Blot, test for antibodies, but if a person's immune system is suppressed by Lyme, then they can't produce enough antibody to test…and, most rheumatic patient's immune systems are compromised and suppressed. This is the irony….that conventional medicine suppresses the rheumatic's immune system further! :sick:

    Peace, Maz

    #343741
    casey
    Participant

    Maz,

    Complete crock with testing ( false positives) is exactly  my point . Take the VDRL test for example. Some physicians will do a VDRL test on their lupus patients. As you likely know, the VDRL is a test for syphilis. When a lupus patient shows up positive for VDRL, they call it a false positive . Whats ironic here is that why  are VDRL tests done in the first place because when it comes up positive or negative , it is dismissed anyway. We, on the other hand, who have researched our disease know that syphilis is caused by a spirochete in the same family as lyme and lyme is found in many lupus patients. So whats with the false positives period.

    False negatives , oh yes , theres big trouble here. To many docs, if its negative , its negative, no such thing as a false negative.

    Know what i mean?! Maybe i am not explaining myself correctly . Lots of stress here right now…and lack of sleep.

    Peace to you too!

     

     

    #343742
    Maz
    Keymaster

    [user=9]casey[/user] wrote:

    We, on the other hand, who have researched our disease know that syphilis is caused by a spirochete in the same family as lyme and lyme is found in many lupus patients. So whats with the false positives period. Know what i mean?!

    Yes, exactly! 😀 One of the biggest problems is that they removed some very specific bands from the standard lyme test in order to create LymeRix vaccine. They used these proteins to produce a vaccine against Lyme and then (when the vaccine failed, because it caused autoimmunity reactions in many who received the vaccine) argued that the proteins were not significant enough to put back in the Lyme tests!!!!

    They've found that periodontal diseases (one offender of which is an oral spirochete), Heliobacter Pylori (a stomach spirochete that causes stomach ulcers and cancer) and syphilis, can all trigger rheumatic diseases! Why then is Lyme such a problem, an organism that is somewhat more complicated in genetic make-up than other spirochetal forms?

    I really try hard not to contemplate any sinister underpinnings in research, but it's difficult not to…especially when much research is funded by big pharma out to make a buck. The politics of research runs deep…have you been able to watch Under Our Skin yet, Casey? Talks about how the playing field changed in the 80s when it became possible for scientist/researchers to patent pieces of organisms that they discovered, which then enabled them to prevent others from using their findings in further research. It's quite a mess out there in the research world and rivalries run verrrrry deep in the Lymelands…worth reading Pam Weintraub's book on this – Cure Unknown – if anyone is interested….it was published last year and touted as the new “Lyme Bible,” as it covers all these topics and really sheds light on a lot of this stuff…quite the expose.  

    Peace, Maz

    #343743
    casey
    Participant

    Maz, Have you seen the movie “Miss Ever's Boys”? I never had until recently. It is an older movie, true story and has been on many HBO movie channels recently. Men who were positive for syphilis ( coloured men pretty much) were treated with penicillin at first which was working as their only treatment. Then to achieve so called “funding” ( all political)for the trials, the antibiotic was dropped unbeknowst to the patients ( and not because penicillin wasnt available). These trials went on for over 40 yrs. The patients were given vit injections thinking it was penicillan.  However, at the end there are very few men living , most having died of their disease. The so called funded trial was actually a trial to moniter HOW syphilis affected the coloured population vs the white population. Waiting for the end now huh????Not telling you anymore because i could be all day and one never tells the end of a movie. If you find time to see it, its worth watching and it just makes me so angry that humans are treated this way especially when they were positive positive positive for the spirochete in the first place.!!

    Take care,

    Casey

    #343744
    Maz
    Keymaster

    [user=9]casey[/user] wrote:

    Maz, Have you seen the movie “Miss Ever's Boys”?

    Casey…no, haven't seen it, but looked it up online and found a write-up of it. I plan on checking out HBO to see if it's on down here to watch. Thanks for the heads up!

    It sounds a bit like Prof Nicholson's whistle-blowing book, “Project Daylily,” which I've yet to read, too.

    http://www.projectdaylily.com/book.htm

    Peace, Maz

    #343745
    casey
    Participant

    Maz, I have read Project daylily . It is a excellent book. That and Miss Evers Boys taught me alot about politics and such. When Miss Evers Boys comes back on , i will post it. I am sure my HBO channel lineup is an American feed so it should be on the same channels . Times may differ from East to west.

    #343746
    casey
    Participant

    This sums up Miss Evers Boys for those who are interested. Even though this true movie is about syphilis, it is still a spirochete and the politics behind it are just sickening. The Tuskegee Experiment was the longest nontherapeutic experiment on human beings in medical history…40 yrs.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_experiment

    #343747
    Maz
    Keymaster

    Thanks, Casey…much appreciated.

    As you're on a roll here, you might be interested in this site, too:

    http://www.lymecryme.com/rich_text_17.html

    If you scroll down, the title is:

    [align=center] [/size][/align]
    [align=center]Lyme Disease = 35+ years in the making[/align]
    [align=center] [/align]
    [align=left]There is a link right under the heading about the Tuskagee study to read about it there, too. [/align]
    [align=left]Peace, Maz[/align]

    #343748
    Trudi
    Participant

    [user=27]Maz[/user] wrote:

    [align=center] [/size][/align]

    [align=center]Lyme Disease = 35+ years in the making[/align]
    [align=center] [/align]

    Hi Maz–

    Put like this, that is just terrible!! 

    Trudi

    Lyme/RA; AP 4/2008 off and on to 3/2010; past use of quinolones may be the cause of my current problems, (including wheelchair use); all supplements (which can aggravate the condition) were discontinued on 10/14/2012. Am now treating for the homozygous MTHFR 1298 mutation. Off of all pain meds since Spring '14 (was on them for years--doctor is amazed--me too). Back on pain med 1/2017. Reinfected? Frozen shoulder?

    #343749
    casey
    Participant

    Oh Maz! MY MY MY MY, i am almost typeless/speechless after reading some of  that info on that site and i am not even finished yet. The Tuskegee Exp is not even on my mind now, the lyme experiments are. It looks like part 2, thats for sure. Now i feel sick to my stomach!

    #343750
    Maz
    Keymaster

    Casey, just watched Miss Ever's Boys last night. What a shameful piece of American history. What more is there to say? Little wonder that Lyme is now being compared to the Tuskagee Study with so many having been “observed” for years without treatment, too. Chronic sypillis is very like Lyme in so many ways and I was a little dumbfounded that they played down the length of treatment needed for neurological syphilis, as if one shot of penicillin was enough to knock it back. 🙁

    Thanks for the heads up on this movie…worth the watch and the education, even if pretty depressing.

    Peace, Maz

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