Mad fasting scheme to help my liver, cut inflamation

[klogan]

I am having a herx/flare thing that is defying abx, too much aleve, and not responding to prednisone too well.
And my liver values are up.
I'm off abx for now, then I will pick up with 50mg doxy MWF

In the meantime, I am taking small doses of prednisone (3-5mg) four days, and three off. Also taking up to 4 aleve a day for PAIN. Obviously, this is a little hard on my poor liver. (I did give up beer – the things we do for our livers!)

Here's my mad scheme.

1. I can't fast and take prednisone and aleve. So I am thinking of taking prednisone for four days/week, and cutting back on aleve as it kicks in (I hope).[/*:1bpoorz8]
2. Three days, a complete fast, no meds (I don't work those three days)
   [/*:1bpoorz8]

Any one else tried such a thing?

Well, it's sure going to be fun. But if it works, well, that will be great.

[linda]

I wouldn't fast while taking any NSAID, but especially Aleve. It is not a cox-2 inhibitor like celebrex and mobic, and is very hard on your stomach.

[Sierra]

Your plan is well worth a try as there is good scientific evidence that fasting improves symptoms. I think you'd be fine with vegetable broth and juices (not too sweet)…if you're experiementing you could try just water vs. broth and juices. Very good idea…I wish you well!

Sierra

[A Friend]

klogan,

I agree with Linda, I wouldn't fast and take aleve or other pain medications.  It may be that your gut lining is already seriously compromised.  NSAIDs are very hard on the lining, liver, and everything else, probably.  Hope you have sought some educated health professional's opinions about your individual fasting plans.  Good luck whatever you do. 

AF

PS  Something that probably would be helpful as a fasting plan would be to go on a vegetable juicing fast.  There are books on fasting this way you probably could get from the library. 

[klogan]

I was planning to take aleve 4 days a week, and then not at all while fasting.
But I am going to start with one day.
Do you think that not taking aleve on a fasting day is not a long enough avoidance? (kind of a tortured sentence, but I hope you get what I mean.)

I think my stomach is suffering.

Not sure what to do – need the pain relief, need my stomach.

Thanks,
kml

[A Friend]

I don't have experience with pain medications, except an occasional ibuprofen which I was warned not to take if I had stomach problems.  But, have read a lot about the damage they do to the stomach and that even a baby aspirin in some people has caused bleeding. 

Some people have mentioned wearing a patch of some type.  Believe even some of the narcotics have been used that way, and said to be safer for some people than oral pain pills. 

A time I do remembering having to take serious pain meds was when I had the reaction to being on the two abx.  I was prescribed Bextra (now I believe taken off the market).  I had no choice but to take it, for my pain was excruciating.  It took 30 minutes after taking it before the pain would subside long enough to even get out of bed for eating/bathing, etc.  If there is an acceptable pain patch, that might be a good interim thing to do.  You might post a new topic asking for anyone's experience.  I've also read that this type use of narcotic is not addicting for pain use… but I really am not familiar personally with their use. 

The juicing of vegetables for your fast and not eating any other food probably could give you some relief. 

Also, you might check out the book, “Painfree in Six Weeks” by Dr. Sherry Rogers. 

AF

Edit:  There should be good information available about vegetable juicing online.  While you can probably get some vegetable juices from the health store, if you live in a large enough place to have a Whole Foods, etc. type grocery, juicing the various recommended combinations would give you more needed nutrients.  We don't have such a place where I live, except for a small healthstore, and you have to get there early on arrival date, and then they are often sold out.   To add to the vegetable juices you may find at your store, you might think about purchasing a jar of Kyo-Green powdered green drink mix and add some to your fasting drink.  The listed nutrients also include FOS, Kelp, Brown Rice, Young Wheat Grass and Young Barley Grass which are all very nutritious.  I understand the FOS in things promotes the growth of good flora in our gastrointestinal track. 

[klogan]

Well, I also have vicodan – I liked the aleve for the inflammation. But if i can fast or vegetable juice some of the inflammation away, that might well work.
I think I will take your advice and use veg juice first. I assume that I can get that at the health food store. Then if I love the results I could always invest in a juicer.

Anyway, thanks for the help,
kml

[linda]

I don't think that is enough. 3 days is not long enough for the lining of your stomach to heal, and the damage will only return during the 4 days back on the meds; I think you will continue to lose ground. I'm a veteran of the stomach wars.
-First of all, you need to be on prilosec, nexium, or protonix.
-Avoid any spicy or acidic foods or drinks, including caffeine and sodas. Try to eat soft, bland foods for a week or 2; bananas, oatmeal, rice, toast, jello, applesauce. 
-Avoid dairy, it will help at first, but after a few hours you will get rebound pain-I don't know why. I relunctantly switched to soy milk, but if you buy the vanilla flavored it actually tastes really good with cereal. Soy ice cream is also good, more like soft serve than dairy, and a lot less fat and carbs. Actually, a gluten free, dairy free diet might not be a bad idea for a while.
-And most important, you need to switch from Aleve to a safer NSAID, like Mobic. Avoid prednisone, it's also hard on your stomach.

All of this will help you continue with the abx, altho you may need to take a break to get your stomach a rest- have you thought about getting IV abx, instead?

Also, there are lots of ways to detox w/out having to fast. There is a lemon/olive oil drink, but it will probably hurt your stomach. I like A Friend's ideas about fasting. You can also sit in a sauna for about 30 min./day, or take epsom salt baths. Deep massage therapy is also helpful. Anyone out there have more suggestions for detoxing?

This is a problem that is very common for people with arthritis, I've done a little research on mortality in people with arthritis, and some articles state that about 30% of deaths result from stomach complications from meds, such as bleeding ulcers. I don't mean to sound blunt, but this is a serious issue, not just because you will have trouble continuing with the abx, but also because it could very dangerous to your health.

I almost forgot, I rec'd some advice a few months ago, and I can't remeber who to give credit to for this, but I was told to try Deglycyrrhizinated Licorice Root Extract,  it has to be deglycyrrhizated or it will cause high blood pressure.  You take it 20 min. before meals, it coats your stomach lining and helps heal it. I'm not a big fan of supplements, but I'm currently unable to take abx because of my stomach problems, so I was willing to give it a try. It is helping. You can find it online or at some vitamin stores. Good luck with this, I know your frustration, but I think you can fix this problem and continue with AP.

linda

[linda]

There is a blog about detox methods at foxnews.com; in the Health section, click on Best Health Blogs on the right side of the screen. I think it's the first one in the list.

[A Friend]

klogan,

Just read this morning, in an incoming newsletter by Dr. Mercola, a piece on detoxing and cleansing with a three step program — Purify, Capture, Remove, which appeals to me if indeed the ingredients perform these functions.  I liked the ingredients I read about in them.  Also, in the piece on this are listed quite a number of comparable programs, products, and brands.  The Perfect Cleanse program sounds good, and believe my spouse would benefit from it, too, as he is a sugaraholic and has some health problems.  If he took care of himself, he would be healthy as a horse.  Never saw anyone with a constitution like he has. 

Has anyone out there used any of the 5 or 6  cleansing programs outlined in the link below:

I sent the following note to myself before I came here to share and inquire:
Link from Dr. Mercola on detoxing cleanse for 10 days, repeated several times each year, a three step regimen each time. Good explanations.   Reasonable cost for the three.   If anyone has used any of these, please share with us.  
 
(In this same issue of the newsletter, it discusses the news about medicines that are coming from China, and known past problems with some of them… and FDA oversight.)  
 
AF
 
http://products.mercola.com/perfect-cleanse/

[Edit. 03/11/08]  Just read your post below and your hot water bottle comment. Another step in a similar direction I've found to be very helpful to me is to get several 1-lb. boxes of baking soda (about 69 cents from Wal-Mart), and put a whole box into a tub of comfortably hot water, and soak for at least 20 minutes.  This really helps me feel much better, especially if I do this right before I go to bed.  I sleep like a baby.  Also, Bicarbonate of Soda is good for neutralizing acidic wastes, so am thinking this is soaking into the body and may help with this also. ~ AF]
 
 
 

[klogan]

That looks interesting – I am going to look at that and keep it in the hopper for a little later. I have also heard good things about the 'lemonade fast', which is lemons, water, and maple syrup (for energy and minerals). I am leary of the sugar (yeast, always the little yeast bastards to watch out for) but it must translate into less sugar than my daily diet?

However, this will have to be for the future, because so far, I can't get my flaring/herxing down enough to get off the aleve/prednisone to try fasting yet.
But I might try a day as an experiment.
Meanwhile, I did cut out sugar, wheat, dairy, alchohol, and am concentrating on vegetables.
Thank god a hot water bottle has not been found to be detrimental to RA!

[DragonSlayer]

Hi, klogan:

I don't have RA, but AS (ankylosing spondylitis) instead.  Both should be treated with antibiotics, however, and AS even more with diet–total starch exclusion.  I know that Mercola likes to suggest getting off grains–all flour products are highly inflammatory, even beyond arachidonic acid.

I am on day 7 of a 16 day fast, since I blew my diet by eating too much dairy and getting sloppy with starches.  It was an alternative to more antibiotics, which I try not to take regularly anymore.

FASTING:  Distilled water–at least 6 glasses per day.
Anything else is NOT fasting.

My friend, Dr. Garten, used to say that “If fasting were a pill it would be the most-prescribed of them all.”

Fasting can remove plaque and decrease inflammation, but it takes four days as a minimum and if you fast more than five days it is important to be careful when breaking the fast:  No physically hard foods, no sugar in any form, and no raw vegetables or fruits.

If you are interested, I can send to you Garten's chapter on fasting with my notes related to AS.

Good luck if you decide to fast–I'm with you,
John

[A Friend]

John,

Can you give us a book title/author/source or a link to your interesting information? 

Thanks,

AF

[DragonSlayer]

[user=28]A Friend[/user] wrote:

John,

Can you give us a book title/author/source or a link to your interesting information? 

Thanks,

AF

Hi, AF:

Max O. Garten wrote a book that was used as a textbook at the Max Planck Institute: 

“Civilized Diseases and Their Circumvention.” 

I don't know whether it is still in print, however.  There are many fasting articles on the web, notably 'fielder-fasting' downloadable as an acrobat file.

Best Regards,
John

[Author]

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