Has anyone here tried Bee Venom Therapy (BVT)?

[PhilC]

I am sure that some of you must have heard about bee venom therapy (BVT). What I am wondering is whether anyone here has tried it.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Maz]

Hi Phil,

Early on, I looked into bee venom therapy and asked my Lyme doc if it would be okay to try it. He gave me the go-ahead, but I never quite got to the point of taking that step – okay, I admit it – big chicken! I understand that the shots are better than the actual bee stings, but must be done by a knowledgeable physician…whereas the bee stings can be done on your own, once trained how to do it. I have used bee venom cream on painful joints, but it's quite expensive…provides a little relief, but can turn skin red and burns a little. Apparently, the more one does bee venom therapy, the less it stings, as the body becomes less reactive to the venom…..sort of like how beekeepers get to a point where they don't even feel stings.

If you decide to go for it, Phil, let us know how you get on. Hope others can share their experience with you. If memory serves, I think Parisa knows someone who did this.

Peace, Maz

[mschmidt]

Phil,

I looked into BVT as well, and decided not to do it, after consulting with my LLMD at the time.  He uses a combination of antibiotics, hormone therapy, enzymes, vitamins, and homeopathic tinctures for Lyme.  So far, I'm really pleased with the progress I've made in such a short time so, I'm reluctant to change up anything.  I'm with Maz, the idea scared me a bit so, I was glad to hear my doc tell me not to do it. 

Maria

[richie]

Hi-That went by the boards a few years ago along with hydrogen peroxide IVS –overblown and oversold

richie

[Randy]

Well, a while back I started a thread about BP, that is the “Bee Protocol, after being stung on one of my fingertips. Ooch! 😯

Well, I can't say it worked too well, but boy it took forever to heal, given our fingertip woes.

Randy

Diffuse SD since Apr '07
AP since Feb '08
100mg Mino twice daily
Stopped Clindamycin IVs Aug 2019
"No one should profit over someone else's illness"

[Davit]

I worked in the woods in the logging industry for 14 years and was stung often. Most people carried a kit I never did but I saw what happens to people that are allergic. Not a pretty sight. The most stings I got was 13 in the middle of my back. I already had the beginning of arthritis and it made no difference. We were warned that if we didn't react we could be in trouble.
It is not something I would purposely do but I would like to know the theory behind it.

Davit.

[Kim]

I stuck my hand in a yellow jacket nest a couple of years ago and NO good came from that! :crying:

kim

[PhilC]

Well, the reason I asked about BVT is that I tried it and was wondering if anyone on here had also. That was back in 1990, and now I am kicking myself a little for not pursuing it more aggressively. The reason I am kicking myself a little is because the BVT worked astonishingly well. Not immediately, though.

The first time I tried it I quickly began having second thoughts because the following day my left femur (thigh bone) was really aching. Since I made the bee sting me just above my left knee, that was almost certainly the cause. Obviously the bee venom was doing something, but was it doing the right thing? I called the late Charles Mraz (a famous beekeeper) to ask him for advice. He told me that people often get worse before they get better, and that I should persist. So I did.

I waited a day or two and then drove to the local arboretum to catch another honeybee. I made her sting me just above my right knee. Aside from the usual pain and inflammation, nothing out-of-the-ordinary happened, which I thought was a good sign. I repeated that several times, alternating between knees for each treatment, for about two weeks. The reason that I stopped after two weeks is because the weather turned cold (it was autumn) and my supply of bees dried up. That was very unfortunate because the BVT was starting to work really well. Within an hour after the last couple of treatments, every ache and pain in my body completely vanished, and the effect lasted for more than 24 hours. I also noticed an increase in energy.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Davit]

PhilC

Are you going to try again. Maybe Honey Bee venom is different from the yellow jackets I used to get stung by. Have you any theory on how and why it works.

My big concern would be that it works the same way as MTX or Cortisone or Radon gas. Good for a while then gone.

It's been around for a while, their must be some information on it.

Davit.

[PhilC]

Hi Davit,

Yellow jackets are quite nasty– very aggressive little wasps. Their venom is supposed to be a lot more toxic than honeybee venom.

I've been stung by honeybees, paper wasps, white-faced hornets, and yellow jackets. If I had to pick one to be stung by, yellow jackets would be my last choice. I had one sting me on the ankle once, and it ached for hours afterward. Ruined the rest of my day. In comparison, honeybee stings seem significantly more painful, but the worst part only lasts for five to ten minutes. After that the area is just a bit sore. That's my experience; other people may react differently.

The way BVT works is complex, and I don't know if anyone totally understands how it works. Based on the limited research I have done on it, it looks like one of the mechanisms by which honeybee venom works is similar to the effect of low-dose naltrexone (LDN).

Will I try it again? Maybe. The answer depends on how well other things work that I am planning on trying– things like LDN and colloidal silver.

Phil

"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
- Albert Einstein

[Davit]

Hi PhilC

Thought I'd pass this on to you. Do you remember the Tin man in the wizard of Oz. I talked to someone who knows the lady I said was taking colloidal silver on her own. This is how she looks. Silver skin. She was drinking a quart of home made a day. Don't tell me it was too much, I know that. The point is that some people still think that if some is good then more is better. In more than just this.
She is in a long term care home. And the worst part is that it doesn't seem to have done any good where AP would have if she hadn't tried more is better with AP also. It made her sick so she quit. I wish CS had done the same. It has tainted my thoughts about it. Any way nothing will replace the cartilage that is gone out of my joints so I will just continue with the AP so it doesn't get worse.

Davit.

[Maz]

Phil, really interesting you had such a good response from bee venom therapy after a few goes. Brown mentions bee venom in the book as a promising therapy.

Apparently, it is said that the mellitin in bee venom that acts as a powerful, natural anti-inflammatory. I've read that bee-keepers who get stung often never get arthritis. The actual shots are combined with a bit of local anesthetic to counter the sting, but likely a lot more expensive than real bee stings.

When I was thinking about Apitherapy, I wondered if it acted a bit like Prolotherapy, which is another therapy where a toxin in injected to counter inflammation.

These are some links to Apitherapy practitioners I came across a while back in case it might help, Phil:

http://www.apitherapy.com/usa.php

http://apitherapy.org/network.pdf

Let us know how you do, if you decide to pursue this again!

Peace, Maz

[pattyrod]

Phil,

Your experience with bee venom is very interesting.  I just met a gentleman that lives in my town that did bee stings for his RA and he has been symptom free for about 20 years.  He learned about bee venom and started raising honey bees himself.  He continues to raise them and continues to get stung.  My conversation with him prompted me to do a search on the Roadback.

Question for Maz – why is it that that I only know of men that have overcome RA and are med free?  Is it just me or are they women out there too that I don't know about?   I've been told that men go into remission faster…

Patty

 

[Davit]

Maz

Is this a fact?!!! I only know of one woman in remission and like me she suffers from the un repairable damage. In my area there is only one person in remission and that is a man. Med free that is, not maintenance.

[Maz]

[user=233]pattyrod[/user] wrote:

Question for Maz – why is it that that I only know of men that have overcome RA and are med free?  Is it just me or are they women out there too that I don't know about?   I've been told that men go into remission faster…

Hi Patty,

Men, in general, seem to respond more swiftly to AP and it's speculated that it's likely due to the protective effects of testosterone and steadier hormones, which for women cycle up and down and are all over the place in mid-life (when the majority of women get RA).

That said, if RA is treated nice and early, response rates for women are pretty good, too. 🙂 RA is, however, a chronic disease, so although it may be possible to re-train an immune system to stop reacting to bacterial allergy once the pathogen load has been lowered sufficiently, there is no guarantee that a person's proclivity for bacterial allergy is gone for good and that it may return if a person's immune function is compromised again (like by some environnmental stressor). AP doesn't proclaim to be a cure, just a means for slowly removing the underlying cause to retrain how the immune system responds to microbial toxins. There are so many factors involved in what may set a person up for ongoing or returning bacterial allergy, too…environmental pollutants, virulent bugs, growing inability to detox, poor diet, imbalances in gut microbiota, leaky gut, candida, food sensitivities, etc. So, it can be a very big puzzle for some folk to figure out which things may be contributing to their bacterial allergy. Women, in particular, seem prone to candida infections around their periods when hormones crash, which also speaks to hormonal involvement.

Here on the support forum, we talk with people who are largely in the beginning stages of AP and seeking ongoing support while they navigate the early days/months. The folk who get well again, move on with their lives and very naturally have little time to hang around here rehashing their stories, as they're out there enjoying life to the full again. We may never know if they come off their AP and sustain remission or not. This is as it should be and the goal of AP…but this is why we have to nab folk when they come back for brief spells to report on how well they're doing and ask for their remission stories, so they can pay forward their success to others. I think also some folk get to a place of remission and are in an almost disbelieving state that they've got there…afraid to even say the word, “remission,” for fear of calling it too early. Many are hesitant to write testimonials for this reason…but these stories are important folks and RBF needs you to tell your story, so please do contact one of the volunteers and send us your remission stories!

I have recently been going through old RBF Newsletters from as early as the mid-90s and there are countless remission stories in these…a real gold mine. There are also quite a few testimonials on the main RBF website and on other AP websites, like http://www.rheumatic.org

Another consideration is that so many people find AP quite late into their disease, sometimes after many years of being on heavy immunosuppressive meds and when a lot of damage to joints has been already occured. Even in these cases, it's possible to reach a remissive state, but it usually takes longer, will often require an experienced doc, IVs and combination orals, with AP pressure being kept up for many years and must remain on AP for life as immune function has been so damaged. Here is a lady in TX who had RA for many years before going to Dr Brown's clinic…just scroll to the Remission Corner at the bottom of this newsletter:

https://www.roadback.org/emailblasts/ebulletin_winter09.html

Brown would stop AP, if a patient's lab markers and physical symptoms had gone into remission. If symptoms began returning, he would put them back on AP. Some people do stop AP, but many will remain on a low maintenance dose to avert potential relapse. In my case, I was so severe, I think it highly likely I will be on AP for life, as I just don't want to risk a return to the nightmare I faced in the beginning and I plan on low dose maintenance therapy. Mild, seronegative cases often go into remission much more swiftly on antibiotic therapy and these folk are likely to do well off AP when all symptoms have resolved for a good period of time. They may relapse and need to return to AP again, but it's then a decision about whether to stay on it to avoid the possibility of future relapse or to have another go without AP. It's very much a personal choice. I suspect, though, that if folk are severe, they will not want to take the risk of going without their AP.

Hope I haven't waffled too much…it's a good question, but I think the lowdown is that AP is not making any false claims of being a cure. AP does, however, promise a good rate of remission and for those with mild, early disease who respond quickly, it is more likely that they will be able to sustain AP-free remission indefinitely, as their immune systems are not as damaged as someone with longstanding or severe disease who may need to work for many years on strengthening immune function.

Does that help, at all, Patty?

Peace, Maz 

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