oregano oil

Moderators: Cheryl F, lynnie_sydney, Maz, RBFV

oregano oil

Postby lrobertson » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:30 pm

anybody out there ever used oregano oil for anything? I have longstanding RA and tried oregano oil (only 2 drops first day and 3 drops second day), for an infection, rather than going the antibiotic route again. I guess I had a herx reaction because on day 2 my knuckles on my right hand which were slightly inflamed went crazy with inflammation. Could this be a sign that oregano oil will work for my mycoplasma? And more importantly at the moment, any suggestions on reducing the inflammation in my hands? I know if I eat the wrong things my hands have swollen up like this, and it only takes hours for it to swell, but months for it to go back down. By the way, have been on minocycline in the past, but was taking a break because it stopped working for me.
Laura
RA for 35 years. Severe hand deformaties. Tried minocycline...worked great for 5 years, haven't been able to get arhtritis under control for last 10 years. Tried Humira, Enbrel, Arava, Methotrexate but couldn't handle side effects. Started helmethic therapy October 2012 declaired a failure April 2013. Now on Probiotics, 5MTHF, NAC, deglycerized licorice for stomach upset, LDN, Ultimate lectin defense, iodine and iron for insufficiency. April 22 started brand name minocin at low dose 50mg MWF making sure I can tolerate as I flare with just about anything! On Orencia injections one a week also as of May 2013.
lrobertson
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:09 pm
Location:

Re: oregano oil

Postby PhilC » Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:27 am

lrobertson wrote:anybody out there ever used oregano oil for anything? I have longstanding RA and tried oregano oil (only 2 drops first day and 3 drops second day), for an infection, rather than going the antibiotic route again. I guess I had a herx reaction because on day 2 my knuckles on my right hand which were slightly inflamed went crazy with inflammation. Could this be a sign that oregano oil will work for my mycoplasma?

Yes, I have used it. Back in 2005 I had a cracked molar that I think may have had an infection in it. Even though the tooth was bothering me a lot, I couldn't get a dentist to do a darn thing about it, so I took garlic and oregano oil for it. Eventually, a small piece of the filling came out and I was able to get a dentist to replace the filling. That was a big help.

Be careful with oregano oil. It is potent stuff, and you might end up with a "herx from Hell." Or maybe not. The problem, as I see it, is that you're kind of venturing into uncharted territory. Ideally, you would be doing this under the supervision of a medical professional who has experience using oregano oil. Which would most likely mean you'd be seeing a naturopath.


lrobertson wrote:By the way, have been on minocycline in the past, but was taking a break because it stopped working for me.

How much were you taking, and how long were you on it?

Phil
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
PhilC
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:59 am
Location: USA

Re: oregano oil

Postby lrobertson » Sun Jan 15, 2012 6:09 pm

I've been on minocycline on and off for 15 years. Last time I was on it MWF 100mg 1x day. I'm going to try it again. I am pretty much on my own as no dr in the area that really understands the protocol. When I start back, should I start real slowly and ramp up or any ideas on that?
Laura
RA for 35 years. Severe hand deformaties. Tried minocycline...worked great for 5 years, haven't been able to get arhtritis under control for last 10 years. Tried Humira, Enbrel, Arava, Methotrexate but couldn't handle side effects. Started helmethic therapy October 2012 declaired a failure April 2013. Now on Probiotics, 5MTHF, NAC, deglycerized licorice for stomach upset, LDN, Ultimate lectin defense, iodine and iron for insufficiency. April 22 started brand name minocin at low dose 50mg MWF making sure I can tolerate as I flare with just about anything! On Orencia injections one a week also as of May 2013.
lrobertson
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:09 pm
Location:

Re: oregano oil

Postby lynnie_sydney » Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:02 pm

I have also used and it (needs to be oil of wild oregano) and found it to be too potent for me. I had to take to my bed within a couple of hours with severe fatigue and flu like symptoms. Even one drop would produce the same response. Think (like many things) the response is very individualised. I know some of the folk at rheumaticsupport.org swear by it.
Be well! Lynnie

Palindromic RA 20+ yrs (Chronic Lyme, CPn,)
Mino 2003-2007 100mg MWF
Now: diet to heal gut - no gluten, dairy, sulphites - 70-80% alkaline effect food
abx regime from May 2012 : MWF a.m. Cefaclor (1/4 375mg) + Fungilin 5mg (amphotecerin)
p.m. Cyproxin 500mg(1/4) + Cilicaine VK (phenoxymethyl penicillin)
supps: 600mg N-AC BID, CoQ10, B-Complex, B-12 sub-lingual, probiotic, Ascorbic Acid 2 grams,
3mg Melatonin + 5-HTP to promote sleep, Krill Oil + Lithium Orotate (natural mineral)
2007 testimonial: http://www.roadback.org/index.cfm/fusea ... d/490.html
personal progress:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=371
User avatar
lynnie_sydney
Volunteer
 
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:47 pm
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: oregano oil

Postby kali » Sun Jan 15, 2012 11:05 pm

I have used oil of oregano while on an anti-candida diet some years ago and it is very potent.

I do not believe it will kill a mycoplasma single-handedly. Most antimicrobials will cause die-off but will not have the effect that the tetracycline drugs have on rheumatoid arthritis and mycoplasma. Here is an excerpt from the Brown/Scammell book:
Over the course of time, we accumulated a larger and larger body of evidence that mycoplasmas were indeed the mechanism for rheumatoid arthritis. First of all, only antimycoplasma drugs had any impact on rheumatoid disease, except in those instances where there was a strong streptococcal connection. Ampicillin may be needed to lower the streptococcal antigen level and reduce symptoms. Tetracyclines were the only group of antibiotics we could find that suppress mycoplasma growth in the laboratory, and they were the only ones that seemed to improve the arthritis patients' conditions-unless there were other bacterial complications which added to the sensitizing process. Henry Scammell. The New Arthritis Breakthrough: The Only Medical Therapy Clinically Proven to Produce Long-term Improvement and Remission of RA, Lupus, Juvenile RS, Fibromyalgia, ... & Other Inflammatory Forms of Arthritis (Kindle Locations 2098-2102). Kindle Edition.

I tried 'natural' remedies for awhile and did not make the improvements I have with AP. I stayed in a constant state of herx. I could tell things were stirred up - but nothing got better. Although oil of oregano has great anti-fungal, anti-bacterial and anti-viral properties - I do not think it will erradicate a mycoplasma. I would imagine it could be of support to the immune system however, unless it is causing too much constant herxing and not really getting to the root of your disease. Maybe you should try switching to another antibiotic for awhile.

I hope you can find an answer. I know how disappointing this process can be at times. What are experiencing that makes you think the mino is no longer working?

Kali
dx: RA
Began AP June, 2011 with Clindy and doxy. Did well - little herx until late Sept. after severe cold. Changed to mino in Nov. and experienced BIG herxing.
100mg Mino every 3rd day Ex. M-Th-Su-W-Sa-Tu-F then repeat.
Very little herxing on this schedule. Seeing good improvement.
Back to light workouts in the gym several days a week.
kali
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:17 pm

Re: oregano oil

Postby Todd WI » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:58 am

I struggle with inflammation in my hands. Nothing seems to touch it. Here's an article on various forms of heat therapy that might help:

http://rmcrayne.hubpages.com/hub/Arthri ... -to-Relief

I've ordered a pair of gloves and will try wearing them at night since my inflammation is worse in the morning. Will it help? Who knows, but it's cheap enough to try. I'm also considering getting a paraffin wax bath.

Todd

edit: I should mention that an IV Glutathione push did significantly reduce the inflammation in my hands, but the relief was short-lived as the inflammation returned the next day. I plan to talk with my doc next week about potentially doing a series of these. It's not cost prohibitive, but rather inconvenient as unfortunately it's about a 3 hour round trip drive to his office.
PsA 1995, AP Feb 2008
Todd WI
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:25 am
Location:

Re: oregano oil

Postby PhilC » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:24 pm

Hi,
lrobertson wrote:I've been on minocycline on and off for 15 years. Last time I was on it MWF 100mg 1x day. I'm going to try it again. I am pretty much on my own as no dr in the area that really understands the protocol. When I start back, should I start real slowly and ramp up or any ideas on that?

You confirmed my suspicions. Taking pulsed minocycline alone for a long period of time is a prescription for failure. Of course, that is only my opinion, but I keep running across people like you and that is the conclusion I have reached. What has most likely happened is that the bacteria have mutated and are now resistant to minocycline. And they are probably resistant to doxycycline and tetracycline as well. That's why when people find that minocycline stops working, they switch to doxycyline and usually find that it also does not work. However, if they had been on doxycycline instead, and it stopped working, there is still a chance that minocycline would work.

By the way, I also learned this lesson the hard way, but I was even more unlucky. In my case, I was on 100 mg doxycycline MWF for only 18 months before the bacteria developed resistance. They aren't totally resistant, because I can tell that it still has some effect when I take 100 mg every day, but it's obviously not as effective as it once was. The good thing is that I was taking doxy, so there is a chance that switching to minocycline is something that will help.

Where should you go from here? Read this reply to Pedro to get some ideas.

Phil
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
PhilC
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:59 am
Location: USA

Re: oregano oil

Postby Maz » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:22 pm

PhilC wrote:By the way, I also learned this lesson the hard way, but I was even more unlucky. In my case, I was on 100 mg doxycycline MWF for only 18 months before the bacteria developed resistance. They aren't totally resistant, because I can tell that it still has some effect when I take 100 mg every day, but it's obviously not as effective as it once was. The good thing is that I was taking doxy, so there is a chance that switching to minocycline is something that will help.



Hi Phil,

Just wondering...can you share which bacteria are you speaking about? Sort of confused by the above, because mycoplasma don't actually have the ability to develop resistance, as resistance is formed on the cell wall of bacteria and mycoplasmas are cell wall-less with only a thin outer lipid layer. There is also recent research demonstrating that tetras can be taken for indefinite periods of time without resistant strains of staph occurring and actually prevents these (which is a bonus!):

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... ce+News%29

You could be spot on if other pathogens are in Laura's mix and perpetuating her RA (think this is what you must be meaning and just thought it important to clarify the above for any newcomers), in which case a combination oral abx protocol would be the way to go to prevent resistance if this is the case. Experienced Lyme docs are pretty well-versed in all this and so tend to use combination approaches not only to prevent bacterial resistance, but to hit all the various pleomorphisms and coinfections of Lyme, recognizing that we're usually not dealing with just one offender, but a number of them (cell walled pathogens, cell wall-less pathogens, cystic forms, etc). When a plateau in progress occurs, there are number of things that can be checked to push progress forward, like adjusting oral dose and/or adding IV clindamycin, or adding a second oral abx, like a macrolide, is one of them (e.g. azithromycin).

T'was ever thus that doing the same thing over and over, especially over the course of many years without producing a new result, probably isn't advisable with AP and that a new approach to the therapy may be the only way to go after all this time. As you mentioned, Dr. Brown didn't just use tetracyclines, but a wide array of abx. E.g. After speaking with Dr. Coker-Vann at TARCI labs, Brown's lab associate, she confirmed that in some cases, he only used a penicillin for some patients. In this sort of scenario, he was probably treating some cell-walled infection, such as strep or borreliosis.

Laura, is there any way we can help you find an experienced AP doc to get you back on track? What were the reasons you stopped and started your minocycline? E.g. Did you reach remission and then relapse after stopping the abx? If you can't get to an AP doctor and travel isn't an option, would it help to send you Dr. S's contact info so you could share you story with him and ask for his advice on how to proceed with AP? He is very kind to freely answer patient emails.

Sorry for all the questions, but think Phil and I are probably on the same wavelength and just trying to figure out a way forward for you. If you could start a new thread and share some detail of your past experience with minocycline, this may prompt more answers from others. Adding a signature line also helps and you can add your current meds/supps/date of diagnosis, etc. To do this, just click on the User Control Panel above, then hit the Profile tab and click on the Edit Signature button. ;)
RA/Lyme - ABX since 11/06
Personal Progress Thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=301
Current Abx Protocol:
Clarithromycin 250mg BID re-started 11/5/13
Moxatag 775mg BID started 3/8/14
Plaquenil 100mg BID
Ivermectin 1mg (rx compounded) daily, started 9/21/11
Various staple supps: Enhansa, NAC, ALA, Morinda Supreme, KriaXanthin, B Complex, Milk Thistle, Dessicated Adrenal, Adaptan-All, Probiotics, Systemic Enzymes, Vit D3, Magnesium Citrate, Sodium Ascorbate, ImmunoPro, Nrf2 Activator, Liposomal glutathione.
Intermittent supps: Chemet every third day, along with NAC and BioPure Chorella followed by BioActive Minerals day following oral chelation. Weekly Myer's Cocktails and Glutathione IV Pushes for detoxification. Tri-salts and Opticleanse GHI.
FIR Sauna and other detox methods as described in Personal Progress Thread.
User avatar
Maz
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7138
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:33 pm
Location: Connecticut USA

Re: oregano oil

Postby PhilC » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:10 pm

Hi Maz,
Maz wrote:Hi Phil,

Just wondering...can you share which bacteria are you speaking about? Sort of confused by the above, because mycoplasma don't actually have the ability to develop resistance, as resistance is formed on the cell wall of bacteria and mycoplasmas are cell wall-less with only a thin outer lipid layer. There is also recent research demonstrating that tetras can be taken for indefinite periods of time without resistant strains of staph occurring and actually prevents these (which is a bonus!):

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... ce+News%29

I was talking about all bacteria in general, though I wouldn't be totally surprised if there are some exceptions. I don't think mycoplasma are one of them, though. What you said about mycoplasma I've read on here a number of times, and I believe Dr. Brown is the source of that claim. I wish he were still alive because it makes no sense to me and I would like to ask him to elaborate.

Here is some evidence that mycoplasma can develop resistance:
Tetracycline-resistant Mycoplasma hominis strains contain streptococcal tetM sequences
Tetracycline Resistance in Ureaplasma spp. and Mycoplasma hominis...

That's an interesting article about S. aureus in ScienceDaily.

Phil
"Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." - Albert Einstein
PhilC
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:59 am
Location: USA

Re: oregano oil

Postby Maz » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:14 pm

PhilC wrote:
I was talking about all bacteria in general, though I wouldn't be totally surprised if there are some exceptions. I don't think mycoplasma are one of them, though. What you said about mycoplasma I've read on here a number of times, and I believe Dr. Brown is the source of that claim. I wish he were still alive because it makes no sense to me and I would like to ask him to elaborate.

Here is some evidence that mycoplasma can develop resistance:
Tetracycline-resistant Mycoplasma hominis strains contain streptococcal tetM sequences
Tetracycline Resistance in Ureaplasma spp. and Mycoplasma hominis...


Hi Phil,

Thanks for sharing these very interesting studies! :)

Seems there is some evidence that some forms of mycoplasma are more susceptible to certain tetras and other abx than others, as per the chart on the main site. M. hominis, as you rightly point out is one of these, seemingly more susceptible to doxy, tetra, clindamycin, temafloxacin and difloxacin, but not to erythromycin and clarithromycin (not tetras), for example. This chart, however, was compiled from now fairly old data (minocycline isn't even mentioned).

http://www.roadback.org/index.cfm?fusea ... pendix-363

What is kind of interesting about the first link you provided above is that it seems that this study is referring to a survival strategy that certain strains of M. Hominis have developed that have been conferred to them by a cell-walled pathogen, streptococcus. Interestingly, Dr. Brown did say that in his clinical experience that those who were non-responders often had a strep component in their mix and that this needed to be treated prior to or concomitantly with anti-myco treatments. Good ol' Dr. Brown, eh?

"This is the first description of tetM in an unrelated genus and suggests the spread of tetM from Streptococcus spp. to Mycoplasma spp."

Further, that the TetM determinant is a gene transfer of some type (from a cell-walled organism) to M. Hominis and is what prevents the tetra from binding to the mycoplasma's 30S subunit of microbial ribosomes, thus preventing its bacteriostatic inhibitory effects.

http://www.antibioresistance.be/tetracy ... u_tet.html

"The tetM gene from Tn916 which can be expressed both in Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria is also frequently used. Several Bacteroides/Escherichia shuttle vectors contain the tetQ gene. tetM and tetQ encode a soluble protein protecting the ribosome from the inhibiting effects of tetracycline."

I guess the bottom line in all this is that strep needs to be treated and, once treated, patients who were previous non-responders may then find they improve? I gotta say, Phil, I'm not convinced that it is "resistance," per say, and that this type of mechanism is more of a survival strategy that is conferred by another organism and that once the other organism is pushed back that a better response to therapy should be expected. It's sort of the same thing with bio-films...yes, they seem to cause "resistance," but once broken down, the organisms that were holed up in bio-film can then be treated?

Ureplasma is a funny one, because although it belongs within the family of Mycoplasmataceae and is cell wall-less, it isn't a mycoplasma, per say, and bears its own classification within the genus.

According to the chart mentioned in the Historical Protocol on the main site in Appendix A, Ureplasma urealyticum is susceptible to temafoxacin, difloxacin and some strains to cipro and tetras, but not to macrolides.

I'm sort of perplexed, because there is a difference between "susceptibility" to certain anti-microbials and "resistance." In other words, some microbes are susceptible to certain anti-microbials and not to others just by virtue of the anti-microbial mechanism of action. E.g. Tetras have some suppressive effects on borreliosis in small doses, but some killing power in higher doses, though borreliosis has also evolved a clever little efflux pump system and only Tigecycline has been shown to kill all spirochetes off in-vitro. Seems susceptibility has been a factor in treatment choice for ureplasma for a while now. This TetM gene also seems to be a smallish issue with this organism (in only 6 of 276 isolates), but suggesting that it might be that a cell walled organism (strep or e-coli?) may well be conferring a survival strategy in some instances of Ureplasma infection, as well:

"...6 of 276 clinical isolates of Ureaplasma spp. from Bordeaux, France (1999 to 2002), were resistant to tetracycline and harbored the tet(M) gene."

Considering that both these infections - M. Hominis and Ureplasma - are uro-genital infections and that Group B Strep (and e-coli) have also been found in the uro-gential tracts of women that Brown was probably right on the money in making sure to treat his patients for strep prior to treating for mycos. Strep is a tricky organism and, although it has not shown any resistance to penicillins in susceptibility testing, it has a tendency to hole up in areas of the body where there is a lot of bio-film activity and that it also seems to "hide behind" other organisms in the throat.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/videos/2006 ... throat.htm

I dunno, Phil...what do you make of this rationale?
RA/Lyme - ABX since 11/06
Personal Progress Thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=301
Current Abx Protocol:
Clarithromycin 250mg BID re-started 11/5/13
Moxatag 775mg BID started 3/8/14
Plaquenil 100mg BID
Ivermectin 1mg (rx compounded) daily, started 9/21/11
Various staple supps: Enhansa, NAC, ALA, Morinda Supreme, KriaXanthin, B Complex, Milk Thistle, Dessicated Adrenal, Adaptan-All, Probiotics, Systemic Enzymes, Vit D3, Magnesium Citrate, Sodium Ascorbate, ImmunoPro, Nrf2 Activator, Liposomal glutathione.
Intermittent supps: Chemet every third day, along with NAC and BioPure Chorella followed by BioActive Minerals day following oral chelation. Weekly Myer's Cocktails and Glutathione IV Pushes for detoxification. Tri-salts and Opticleanse GHI.
FIR Sauna and other detox methods as described in Personal Progress Thread.
User avatar
Maz
Volunteer
 
Posts: 7138
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:33 pm
Location: Connecticut USA

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 8 guests